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Spitfire Common Spitfire weaknesses?

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Scott_Hower

Scott_Hower

Luke Skywalker
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So as most of you know, I have a new Spitfire in the garage. New to me anyway.

I've already ordered a bunch of maintenence parts (belts, hoses, filters, fluids, gaskets, ignition, etc. and will be busy getting that stuff sorted out for another week or two. Or three. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

I'm looking for a good reference and/or pointers on what the common weak points are on a Spit. I am very familiar with this type of stuff on an MGB (kingpins, diff washers, etc) but have no clue what to be on the lookout for in a Spit.

Anyone got a list of things that commonly break or wear out? I know the bottom ends are considered weak and the thrust washer issue; also know the gearbox is somewhat fragile.

Any preventative things I need to be doing? I'm not looking to fix things that are not broken; but if something is likely to be bad already, I'd rather address it on my terms before it lets me sit.
 
Scott-

My memory may be poor on the spit transmissions, but I thought the later trans as in your car is more robust than the earlier 3 rail version (74 or so and earlier). I'm not even sure those were bad, the GT6 with heftier engine was tougher on the transmission than the spitfire.

Not mechanical, but on the body I'd do a quick check on your battery tray and make everything is clean - I had two spits and the battery area was the one place rust took hold.

Other than a thorough inspection of hydraulics, front and rear suspension points ,etc I think the spitfire is a pretty robust car - yours looks to be in good shape too.

Randy
65 TR4
 
I haven't found the Spit to be any different really than most LBC's. Pretty well engineered overall (considering Triumph was trying to keep costs down). The 1500 transmission isn't a particular sore spot, as far as my understanding goes.

You already know about thrust washers. Worth checking for sure. And rust, as mentioned in another post - always a possibility.

I would check the drive line thoroughly. Prop shaft and axle shafts have been a little problematic. Check the u-joints closely. Vibration and noise in the drive line is common. While you're at it, check the rear axle bearings, bushings and trunnion, a common problem area. Also the rear spring is prone to 'sag'. If you have a whiney diff, well welcome to the club. I'm not sure this is any different from a TR or MG, I expect they are pretty much the same unit, and they all whine a bit as you probably know.

The front wheel lower trunnions can go if they are not lubricated.

I understand the emissions setup on later-model California Spits can be a problem. This is not something I would do anything about in advance, since it can be expensive, but I would check it over thoroughly.

Other than that, the Spit will have the same kinds of problem other LBC's do - carb butterfly shaft wear, mechanical fuel pump, Lucas dizzy, etc. Not any better or worse than others, though. The single Stromberg has its pros and cons. It is very easy to work on, though, and I would consider buying a carb-kit and plan on pulling and renovating it just on spec.

You'll find you can get at pretty well well anything up front with that Spitfire bonnet raised. Oh yes, check the bonnet-adjusting rubber cones - these have a tendency to get dried out and broken.
 
Things I've encountered in the short time I've had my 77 Spit:
BIG crack in the exhaust manifold.
Corroded floor pan.
Corroded battery box (as mentioned above).
Corroded brake lines.
Brakes, naturally.
U-Joints, naturally.
Seats deteriorating.
Rust everywhere...shouldn't be so bad on yours.
Side marker light rubber "plinths". (And light fixtures)
Tail light gaskets.
Cracks around bonnet latches (and headlight area corners)
Windscreen seal.
Carburation!
Ride height front/rear. (Cured mine with Mk3 springs in front and Corvette air shocks in rear.)

All in all, I'm havin' fun with it...as I'm sure you will. That's what it's all about.

Good Luck,
Len
 
guzzul said:
The single Stromberg has its pros and cons. It is very easy to work on, though, and I would consider buying a carb-kit and plan on pulling and renovating it just on spec.

Oh yes, check the bonnet-adjusting rubber cones - these have a tendency to get dried out and broken.
Click to expand...

Check /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

carb.JPG


Will add the rest to the list. Thanks!
 
There are a few weak points I've noticed owning three Spitfires - '74,'78 and now a '73.
*The metal underneath the top door hinge on both sides is not strong enough - it is prone to cracking - easily seen just by opening the doors.
*For some reason they thought that painting the underside of the windshield frame/wiper arm mount area was a bad idea - good advice to paint it with ANYTHING.
*The universal joints in the rear axle seem to last only a few years.
*Thrust washers fall out - you can see if they are worn/gone by running the engine and pushing the clutch in and out while looking at the front pulley for movement.
*If you have an intact battery tray I recommend protecting it with grease or something. Maybe even worth it to get an Optima battery.
*The 1500 seems for some to run hot, or overheat. I have NEVER had this problem, but it is a good idea to keep the radiator as new as possible. It's probably worth it to get it dipped and sealed again if you think it might give you trouble.
*This may sound crazy, but make sure there's fluid in the trans and diff. Some people run them dry without knowing it.
*There is a tricky safety system in the brakes on the Spitfire: below the master cylinder there is a bypass unit, which in the event that the front or rear brakes lose pressure a little hydraulic switch will flip inside so that you do not lose your brakes entirely. If you do not know EXACTLY what you are doing with bleeding brakes don't even try to do this yourself. This can be very difficult to fix.
*Funny thing about Lucas electrics - I like them. I think it's an absolute myth about their unreliability. There, I said it. If you can operate a wire brush you can fix electrical faults in a British car.
*That said, there is one curious design issue with the license plate lights on the Spitfire - the bulb can fall out and into the housing. The bulb is the only thing holding the two contacts apart, so when this happens it puts a huge load on that system, then blows a fuse. Took me a while to figure that one out!
*The heater valve control cable swings dangerously close to the positive side of the battery. I have accidentally touched the cable to the battery, and two weeks later mysteriously my alternator went up. Big surprise!
*You may want to remove the drain plugs in the trunk. This in my opinion will save your trunk and your outer fenders. Amazing how rust won't start when the water can evaporate!
*I can't think of much else, but I did have a wheel COMPLETELY fall off because of a faulty bearing. It was the hottest day of the year, and I was on my way on a camping trip, when the car started wandering all over the road(NOT a Spitfire trait!). I pulled over, gave everything a good shake and couln't see anything wrong. I decided to drive home slowly, and BAM! The entire wheel, hub, rotor, brakeline and caliper were rolling next to me down the road! BIG mess. The problem was the bearing seized, and was spinning on the spindle. After dissasembly I noticed that it was blue - like a motorcycle exhaust pipe. The spindle had heated up so much that it broke from the weight of the car. So it's worth it to pull the hub off and check the bearings!

I find the Spitfire to be utterly reliable - I wouldn't hesitate to drive them anywhere - after you change the fluids and everything is good and safe. I also have been in an accident in my '78, and it faired unbelieveably. I struck a Caprice classic - T-boned it going about 45MPH. The guy was reading while he was driving - unbelieveable! His car was COMPLETELY caved in, and the Spit was just "crooked". It needed a new bumper, the frame laser straightened and there was damage to the hood, signal and the jam between the hood and door. Let me tell you - seatbelts save lives!

Enjoy your Spit - looks like you've got a really solid example.

Adam.
____________________________________________________________
1973 Triumph Spitfire.
 
TheAssociate said:
*There is a tricky safety system in the brakes on the Spitfire: below the master cylinder there is a bypass unit, which in the event that the front or rear brakes lose pressure a little hydraulic switch will flip inside so that you do not lose your brakes entirely. If you do not know EXACTLY what you are doing with bleeding brakes don't even try to do this yourself. This can be very difficult to fix.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips; will follow them.

I am intimately familiar with the PDWA switch, I chased a leak on my MGB for a year and this was the culprit:

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/u...true#Post153258
 
TheAssociate said:
*Funny thing about Lucas electrics - I like them. I think it's an absolute myth about their unreliability. There, I said it. If you can operate a wire brush you can fix electrical faults in a British car.
Click to expand...

I agree, my TR6 still uses the original wiring harness. Partly becasue I was lucky and the two previous owners never tried creative re-wiring but also because I have found the only issues to be corrosion on connections. Clean the connections and no issues. As long as the wiring harness is intact that is. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

That being said, the only time I ever tried to sell my TR6 it blew a fuse. A one time occurence in nearly 17 years of ownership. I guess my TR6 likes me and didn't want to leave. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
TheAssociate said:
*Funny thing about Lucas electrics - I like them. I think it's an absolute myth about their unreliability. There, I said it. If you can operate a wire brush you can fix electrical faults in a British car.
Click to expand...

I read once that Lucas did not make the wiring, just the components. As a result, Lucas often gets unfairly blamed for wiring problems.

I can't, or rather don't, complain about Lucas components. Yes, I have had starters and generators fail. But look at how old they are!

"Lucas starters are unreliable! That starter only lasted 25 years!"

I think LBC owners joke about Lucas to show other LBC owners that they are "in the know". An inside joke only LBC owners laugh at.

There, now I've said it.
 
The Front trunnions should be lubricated with GEAR OIL. They are not meant to be greased. Lift up the car, and oil them. I fill up my grease gun with oil and just force it on in.

The first time you grease the rear wheel bearings, I suggest that you take the wheels and brake drums off. First time I greased the rear wheel bearings I discovered that the escape hole was plugged up so all the excess grease was dumped right into the brake drum. Not so good for the brake pads!

Make sure that there is no "wobble" in the wheels.(loose bearings / bad suspension bits) There are replaceable nylon bearings in the rear which do wear out. My car gained 1/2 inch height when I replaced the bearings. Most people don't even realize they exist.

Overall, I would give it all the standard maintenance procedures (grease/oil brakes...) make sure nothing is loose, and drive it gently for a while.
Yisrael
 
<u> </u> ALL of the above just proves ONE THING that proper CONTINUING maint is the way to go with any car,AND the Spitfire is no exception.As i learned in the military PREVENTIVE MAINTEINCE is the secret!YYaa got to DO THE MAINT or your car will fall apart JUST when you need it most,like going to the corner store for a quart of milk!,or forgetting to put that fuel stabilizer in the tank.;-)
Myspitfire;1500 TR...(alias KensWhitelightning)...Right now i hear rumblings in the garage where WhiteLightnings hibernating.,SSoo i went out and discussed some things with her & told her she's OK & SPRING is just around the culdasac & not to worry be happy!That night their were no more rumblings.WE ALL talk to our TR's DON'T WE?I DO.
 
Yeller is sleeping in the garage... A couple of weeks ago, before this bitter cold, I was thinking about starting her up and letting it warm up. Then I got to thinking, what if it didn't start. Then I would be stuck out in the cold garage trying to figure out what I had to do to make her run. Better to let sleeping little cars sleep.
 
As has been said many times over its got to be your UJ's, with me they only last about 10,000 miles, after which time you also need to renew the carriers, as the as the bearing cups start to spin.

And to again mention the front trunnions, I had a front upright fail whist travelling at 50mph the off side front suspension collapsed veering me into the oncoming traffic.

You can probably see the mark in the road where the lower wishbone was scraping on the road in this image
2.jpg


and here is the broken front upright
3.jpg
 
Here is my list of 'little treasures' I have found on my son's '79. Treasures because they are a gold mine for SpitBits and BPNW. The only places to buy parts at a reasonable rate...

Allison ignition not working. Distributor with too much play in the shaft. Both fixed with a new distributor with Pertronix EI built in from BPNW for $145. Not bad. New coil, plugs and wires too.

Carb removed and flushed. Insides looked fairly clean.

turn signal bright switch not switching. New switch $90.

Seats - shot! center fabric upholstery barely there. foam rapidly trying to leave the car for a better place one crumb at a time. Mazda Miata seats purchased $100 plus shipping. Should be in a week. Send me a PM if you want to know where.

Battery, hmmm, Houston we have a problem. It seems to have been abducted by the aliens 'cause it was not there. Another $65 gone. poof.

Exhaust manifold. VERY LARGE crack. Pacesetter header bought and installed. $150. What a crappy fit. Time for a letter to pacesetter of the not so kind variety. As soon as the car is one the road, we have to visit the muffler shop to get the header off the frame. grrrrrr! BTW, teenagers love the sound of a Spit with just the header attached.

Rubber gaskets - everywhere and evrything needed replacing. Bought from SpitBits, BPNW and ebay. Found a good source on ebay for door waist seals and the fuzzy flex door trim. Got those and another major gasket for a $100 shipped from the UK. Send me a PM if you want to know where.

Drivers side door latch, well, not latching. used unit $30. from what I understand, this is a common problem.

Had a brand new soft top in boot and no frame. Ebay frame for $50. now, it is either $275 to have it installed or give it a go by myself. hmmmm.

Factory hardtop found locally in decent shape. $150! wahoo! I have the Snugtop fiberglass hanging from the ceiling now. hopefully I can get rid of this.

New brake and clutch hydraulics. Clutch rebuilt. Brakes, everything is new except the front calipers. #$^% brake master was too corroded to fix. New one ordered. Still have the kit for the rebuild. will go on ebay, one day... Also, brake light switch was not staying together. Cheap part.

New tires on rims that got a fresh coat of silver paint. GT6 Chrome centers from a benevolent grandfather who is helping from 3500 miles away.

front seal looks to be leaking. cheap part. pain to get to. but the Radiator needs to come out for testing, so this will be done then.

There is a front duct from the spoiler back to the radiator, if you have the leaning radiator, that is made from that famous fiberboard that is rumored to have surrounded our engines. Only the remnants around the bolts tell me that it was once there and the fact someone sells an aluminum one on ebay. I think I will try and make this myself from flashing material.

Dash top. cracked. New top purchased on ebay. $40

Wooden dash - needs to be refinished.

Carpet good enough for the son. The center armrest vinyl needs to be refinished. I might order this from the UK or get a local shop to make one for me.

OH yeah, one biggie if you have read this far. Leaking gas tank. Do not put more than a gallon of gas in your tank the first time cause it is a mudda to get out quickly before your trunk becomes the gas tank. Found a gas tank sealant that truly works wonders from Hirsch Automotive. $35.

Luckily, the only rust I had was the front drivers floor board which I wire wheeled, sealed and painted. Also, my compression is 120 across all cylinders. Another goody is my suspension is really tight.

BTW - Ford Engine Blue is a pretty close match to your color for painting surfaces that are not seen from the outside. Like the floorboards.

One more hint, buy all your little incidentals like paint and normal items from autozone in $20 intervals. After 5 $20 purchases, they give you a $20 gift card! very nice. Don't dump a $100 at once because that only counts as one purchase.

oops, sorry for the book....hope your 'treasures' are less than mine.
 
I believe the major Spitfire fault was the carb starvation during hard manuevering.
In a wing over and hard dive my Spit would stutter whilst the Messerschmit 109 with fuel injection would maintain constant fuel feed and pull away in a dive
 
TheAssociate said:
...There is a tricky safety system in the brakes on the Spitfire: below the master cylinder there is a bypass unit, which in the event that the front or rear brakes lose pressure a little hydraulic switch will flip inside so that you do not lose your brakes entirely. If you do not know EXACTLY what you are doing with bleeding brakes don't even try to do this yourself. This can be very difficult to fix....
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I feel I must correct the above. This "safety valve" is also called the PDWA, or Pressure Differential Warning Actuator. It does absolutely NOTHING to change the way the hydraulic system functions; all it does it actuate the warning light when it senses a -- yes -- Pressure Differential between the two circuits.

[Note that there is a "tipping valve" IN the master cylinder; that more nearly serves the function you describe.]

Also, if you follow the procedure for bleeding the brakes and for resetting the PDWA as outlined in the factory workshop manual, it is NOT difficult to fix! (Some folks will remove the switch itself and reset the little "shuttle" piece inside the PDWA, but I prefer to do it as stated in the manual -- by careful bleeding.
 
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