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Scott_Hower
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racingenglishcars said:
Tell Me More. I see these in the shop manual. Are they had to replace?
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Spitfire Common Spitfire weaknesses?
- Thread starter Scott_Hower
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Tell Me More. I see these in the shop manual. Are they had to replace?
guzzul
Jedi Warrior
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Actually I did mention this in an earlier post.
Yes, they are in the manual, and yes they are hard to replace.
The rear axle(s) run through a trunnion hub that has two bearings in it. The outer bearing is a roller bearing and pretty substantial, not prone to failure. The inner bearing is a needle bearing, and more fragile. With proper lubrication, shouldn't be a problem, particularly at your mileage. But these are indeed a problem area for Spits.
Mechanically, pulling the rear axles, trunnions and bearings is not difficult. But getting the rear hub off is usually a bear. Then you need to press the main bearing out, and usually you will have trouble getting the trunnion out of the vertical stabilizer. So that's where the difficulties are.
It's pretty easy to check out, however, and see if you do have rear axle u-joint or hub problems. And usually you can hear the bearings going before they fail (...usually...). Do check though.
Yes, they are in the manual, and yes they are hard to replace.
The rear axle(s) run through a trunnion hub that has two bearings in it. The outer bearing is a roller bearing and pretty substantial, not prone to failure. The inner bearing is a needle bearing, and more fragile. With proper lubrication, shouldn't be a problem, particularly at your mileage. But these are indeed a problem area for Spits.
Mechanically, pulling the rear axles, trunnions and bearings is not difficult. But getting the rear hub off is usually a bear. Then you need to press the main bearing out, and usually you will have trouble getting the trunnion out of the vertical stabilizer. So that's where the difficulties are.
It's pretty easy to check out, however, and see if you do have rear axle u-joint or hub problems. And usually you can hear the bearings going before they fail (...usually...). Do check though.
foxtrapper
Jedi Trainee
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Thrust washer is a biggie. Just pry the front engine pulley fore and aft to check it. If it goes, and you drive it that way, you eventually trash the block and crank.Scott_Hower said:
Rear suspension u-joints. The u-joint is a critical piece of the rear suspension. Don't let it go bad, or very ugly things happen. You cannot check it in place. You need to pull the four bolts and pry the axle shaft away (pretty easy to do) to check it for play. Use a good replacement unit, not a cheapie.
Front trunion. Lubricate it and watch it for wear. Another piece that gets ugly when it lets go. For a while, people got the cockeyed notion of changing the front alignment by mixing shims behind the a-arm, and binding the trunion, wearing it out rapidly.
The rest is generic LBC. The car is quite robust, but will not stand up to ham fisted driving. The differential is a bit delicate and does not appreciate clutch dumps. The 1500 isn't well balanced, and doesn't appreciate screaming rpms.
guzzul
Jedi Warrior
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Lionheart said:
One sign of trouble is driveline noise, particularly if the needle bearing is going. When the needle bearing starts to go it will eat its way into the axle shaft and you can usually hear it coming for some time.
You can hear a constant 'bearing noise' (can't decribe it any other way, but its not a 'whine' like differential noise, its more of a groan or else a real grinding or munching sound), typically from the side of the car that's wearing out. It will vary a bit in pitch with speed, but will not vary on acceleration or deceleration as does differential or u-joint noise. The noise will typically be more pronounced when cornering. Eventually it will get to be very loud.
The axle shaft itself is pretty sturdy, but if its left too long I assume it will eventually snap. If you leave it too long the trunnion will be also become useless, so you'll be replacing the bearings, axle AND trunnion.
The front ball bearing will make noise too if it develops flat spots, etc., but typically it won't chew its way into the axle like the needle bearing because it has a race.
If you are not hearing noise, but you want to check for 'play' between the bearings and the axle you need to clamp the axle so it doesn't move (easier done on a bench, but can also be done without removing). Take the road wheel and brake drum off and grab the trunnion and backplate and try to wiggle it diagonally to the shaft. If the bearings are worn you can feel (and also see) movement between the trunnion and axle. With a new shaft and bearings there will be no movement - zero. A little bit is tolerable, bearings and shaft do wear over time, and most cars will have some degree of normal wear. If it seems to be a lot of movement, plan to rebuild the axles before it becomes a serious problem.
One other area to check. As Yisrael mentions in an earlier post, there are plastic bushings in the trunnion. If you can get a pry bar in to leverage the trunnion up in the vertical link you can see if these bushings are badly worn or perished. There should be no movement of the trunnion up and down in the vertical link.
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If I might clarify a bit, there are TWO problem areas with the front trunnions. One is the nylon bushings, and wear often can be spotted by simply lifting the front of the car enough to take the load off the front wheels. If there is any play at all, it's past time to replace those bushings! When you do, check the hole in the trunnion to make sure it has not been ovalled out by an extremely worn or missing bushing bolt/collar.guzzul said:
The other problem is actually more with the vertical link itself. Although the brass trunnion is rather softer than the cast vertical link, a long-neglected (i.e., dry and unlubricated) trunnion can cause rust, pitting and wear in the threaded base of the vertical link. This often leads to that threaded portion of the link actually breaking off. This is NOT a pretty sight, and NOT something you ever want to have happen to you at any speed (don't ask me how I know)!
So where do I get DEFINITIVE overhaul instructions for the axle assemblies? I understand it's not for the meek, but even if I take them to a machine shop, they'll need some guidance. Will the instructions in the Bentley manual "The Complete Official Triumph Spitfire 1500" section 47.10.18 get the job done?
guzzul
Jedi Warrior
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[/quote]If I might clarify a bit, there are TWO problem areas with the front trunnions. [/quote]
I was actually referring to the rear trunnion, Andy. In my note I did say "front bearing" when what I should have said was the "outer" bearing. I meant the outer roller bearing on the rear axle.
Having said that, you have reminded me (when the weather gets a little better of course) that I better have a look a my front trunnions as well. Some of the posts here as well as your note about the link snapping have got me spooked.
Ross
I was actually referring to the rear trunnion, Andy. In my note I did say "front bearing" when what I should have said was the "outer" bearing. I meant the outer roller bearing on the rear axle.
Having said that, you have reminded me (when the weather gets a little better of course) that I better have a look a my front trunnions as well. Some of the posts here as well as your note about the link snapping have got me spooked.
Ross
guzzul
Jedi Warrior
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The rear axles are not all that hard to rebuild once you've got them apart. Getting them apart, however, can be a real challenge.
First is getting the hub off the end of the axle. A Churchill puller or a press is necessary. I have seen some home-made pullers on the Spitfire & GT6 site that might work too. Alternately, you could take it in to your local LBC garage and they will usually pull it for a fee.
Separating the vertical upright from the trunnion will cause you to curse. What happens is the bolt that holds all this together runs through a steel sleeve inside the trunnion. Over time, the sleeve and the bolt become one. You just can't get that sucker out. I have resorted to a hack-saw on the inside edge of the vertical link to cut through the bolt on each side and get the trunnion out, and even then I have had to drill the plastic bushings out of the trunnion to get the old bolt shaft out of it.
After that, you still need to get the trunnion (and bearings) off the axle shaft. This is straightforward, just support the trunion in a press and press out the axle.
Reassembly is pretty easy.
Yes, the Leyland Repair Operations manual (Section 47.10.18) will tell you what you need to know, however looking at instruction 11 (just 'remove' the trunnion bolt) makes me laugh. Were it that simple...
The Haynes Spitfire manual (Chapter 7, Section 5) is good too.
First is getting the hub off the end of the axle. A Churchill puller or a press is necessary. I have seen some home-made pullers on the Spitfire & GT6 site that might work too. Alternately, you could take it in to your local LBC garage and they will usually pull it for a fee.
Separating the vertical upright from the trunnion will cause you to curse. What happens is the bolt that holds all this together runs through a steel sleeve inside the trunnion. Over time, the sleeve and the bolt become one. You just can't get that sucker out. I have resorted to a hack-saw on the inside edge of the vertical link to cut through the bolt on each side and get the trunnion out, and even then I have had to drill the plastic bushings out of the trunnion to get the old bolt shaft out of it.
After that, you still need to get the trunnion (and bearings) off the axle shaft. This is straightforward, just support the trunion in a press and press out the axle.
Reassembly is pretty easy.
Yes, the Leyland Repair Operations manual (Section 47.10.18) will tell you what you need to know, however looking at instruction 11 (just 'remove' the trunnion bolt) makes me laugh. Were it that simple...
The Haynes Spitfire manual (Chapter 7, Section 5) is good too.
