Colorado unfair to vegetarians......

[mailbox]

I don't intend this to be negative in any way, just pointing out the way I see the situation in hopes you will better understand what happened.

I understand your point and know you meant nothing negative. But trust me, I understood precisely what happened - the guy was a being an emotional, irrational, illogical jerk (who in all likelihood based his opinion on what others told him to think rather than his own objective, factual assessment). I’m 54 years young and, sorry but I'll be darned if I’m going to adjust what I do in my life to appease such people.

I told him that if he didn't like the person in question, he didn't have to listen to the person - it's a free country I told him. But I also told him that, while I respected his right to not like the person, I reserve the right also to my own freedom of expression, thank you very much. At which point I got in my car and left as this tolerant person yelled profanities at me. Compared to some of the blatantly political stuff I see on some peoples' cars (some of which is clearly intended to express their personal anger at some situation and/or to inflame people with different views), my little one-word vanity statement is very benign. It’s only controversial if someone wants to be a mental midget like that guy and make it controversial. For what it’s worth I get far more honks and thumbs up over my vanity plate than I get jerks like that guy (in fact that was the only time that someone actually confronted me in person, aside from the occasional middle finger salute and “So and So $ucks” being yelled at me from a passing car.

It simply amazes me how the people who tell you to be open-minded about something have the most closed-minded stance of anybody. So what if someone thinks differently than you do. Personally, I don't want everybody thinking like me anyway! This country is already screwed up enough like it is.

P.S. My mind went straight to the gutter when I saw that tag.

 

[Steve]

I have the vanity plate EX BOBBY. Yes, cops do recognise it and aknowledge it. :wink:

 

[Steve_S]

Basil, I agree with you completely. I suppose I take a more real-world view on such things. I know that human nature is what it is, and I have to expect a certain reaction from a percentage of the population should I choose to put an endorsement for a controversial personality on my car as I drive through city streets. I don't believe it's right to verbally assault someone for their views, but I also view it as hypocritical to tell them that such a reaction is wrong. It's a lose-lose situation which is why I refrain from talking politics or other such potentially inflammatory subject matter in any company, no matter how polite. I despise politics anyway so it isn't difficult to carry out this way of life.

 

[Basil]

Basil, I agree with you completely. I suppose I take a more real-world view on such things. I know that human nature is what it is, and I have to expect a certain reaction from a percentage of the population should I choose to put an endorsement for a controversial personality on my car as I drive through city streets. I don't believe it's right to verbally assault someone for their views, but I also view it as hypocritical to tell them that such a reaction is wrong. It's a lose-lose situation which is why I refrain from talking politics or other such potentially inflammatory subject matter in any company, no matter how polite. I despise politics anyway so it isn't difficult to carry out this way of life.

With all due respect, I too am firmly planted in the "real-world," as are my views. Of course there are some obvious exceptions (like Hitler), but in general, one man's singer, for example, is another man's "controversial" figure. In my view the person in question isn't controversial at all and I find I'm in agreement with 80 percent of what the person says. If "some" folks don't like the person, that is there right. I tend to make my own judgements about such things.

As for being hypocritical, I disagree. I simply stated the facts of what happened. In fact I told him it was a free country and that he was entitled to his opinion - AS AM I. HE is the one who decided to take issue with me - a total stranger. I simply defused the situation without resorting to his level of stupidity (and, to my credit, he kept all his teeth). But if I feel he was being a jerk, that is my opinion.

I don't hate politics - I just don't choose to use this forum to espouse my views (at least I try hard not to). In fact, politics (in all its sides and positions) is (in my opinion) the life blood of this country. Thank God we have people with differing views and have a system that allows us to decide, without violence, which direction the country will go in every few years! Sometimes we like and agree with the results and sometimes we don't, but either way, the end result is a peaceful transition of power and that is something we should all agree is a wonderful thing.

 

[GregW]

I Imagine I know now who you refer to on your plate.

 

[Steve_S]

Sorry Basil, I didn't mean to imply that anything you did was hypocritical, I was referring more to myself and my desire to be as understanding as I can be as a human. Doesn't always work of course, because I am human! As I said, I agree with your feelings on the subject. I do feel like you should have expected an eventual confrontation by putting whatever it was on your plate. That doesn't mean I feel the guy was right, just that I understand how he could become irritated that someone is driving around in their car advertising something that he believes is wrong. Especially if it's so controversial that you won't even post it here. :wink:

 

[Basil]

I Imagine I know now who you refer to on your plate.

Oh, you "Imagine" you know do you...LOL

 

[Basil]

I do feel like you should have expected an eventual confrontation by putting whatever it was on your plate.

I disagree, respectfully of course. I honestly NEVER expected someone to be so irrational as to actually confront me because of their disagreement. And I don't feel I should have expected that. Thankfully that's only happened once. I mean, during elections I may have a sticker on one of my cars supporting my candidate and other people may have stickers supporting a different candidate.

I may feel their candidate is "controversial" because of my own assessment of that candidate's history, background, associations, and views that are completely counter to mine, etc, etc. But I don' think that those people should expect that someone is going to get in their face because they happen to support a candidate that some others don't support and may even find controversial.

As for my not posting it here - it's not because I feel it's so controversial that someone here would want to physically confront me - it's just a simple philosophy that I try not to use my forum to inculcate the folks here with my own ideological views (If I wanted to do that I'd have become a College professor (I'M KIDDING!) Although I'd be well within my rights to do so given that I own the place, I try hard not to do that (but I'm human too and sometimes I slip up). It's the same reason I don't have a signature line reflecting that I'm a card-carrying member of a certain organization supporting a certain aspect of our Constitution. I happen to have a sticker on my car reflecting my membership, but I don't advertise it here for the same reason.

At the same time, if you choose to not reflect your support for anyone or anything you admire or believe in for fear someone else my not like them, that is certainly your right. Your reasons are your reasons and I have to respect that approach if it works for you.

 

[Steve_S]

You're preaching to the choir, I still agree that the guy was wrong. But I look at it in a similar fashion to hiking in the woods. You have every right to be there and be left alone, but you should expect that putting yourself in a situation that might cause a bear to attack, might actually cause a bear to attack. Advertising something, anything, on your car that is at all controversial will undoubtedly result in an eventual confrontation with an idiot. You can't blame a bear for doing what bears do by nature, and while people SHOULD know right form wrong and exhibit understanding, we all know some humans are not capable of such rational thought. You can say they're wrong, but you can't entirely blame them for their actions if it's a mental condition that you or I don't possess.

I hope I'm clearing up my point rather than digging a deeper hole. No argument or insult intended.

 

[GregW]

Oh, you "Imagine" you know do you...LOL

Its like the "Guess the word Basil's thinking" game. <span style="color: #3366FF"><span style="font-size: 17pt">***astronaut***</span></span>

 

[NutmegCT]

You're preaching to the choir, I still agree that the guy was wrong. But I look at it in a similar fashion to hiking in the woods. You have every right to be there and be left alone, but you should expect that putting yourself in a situation that might cause a bear to attack, might actually cause a bear to attack. Advertising something, anything, on your car that is at all controversial will undoubtedly result in an eventual confrontation with an idiot. You can't blame a bear for doing what bears do by nature, and while people SHOULD know right form wrong and exhibit understanding, we all know some humans are not capable of such rational thought. You can say they're wrong, but you can't entirely blame them for their actions if it's a mental condition that you or I don't possess.

I hope I'm clearing up my point rather than digging a deeper hole. No argument or insult intended.

Well said, Steve. Bravo.

We have the right to say whatever we feel. That right, however, should be self-moderated by respect and understanding that the rest of the world may not agree *and* may not take it exactly the way we mean it.

That's human nature. Sadly, there are folks who love to flaunt their personal feelings in the face of others, often (not always) just to get more attention.

Responsibility for our actions - and their effects on others - is one of the traits of adulthood.

Tom

 

[Basil]

Well said, Steve. Bravo.

We have the right to say whatever we feel. That right, however, should be self-moderated by respect and understanding that the rest of the world may not agree *and* may not take it exactly the way we mean it.

That's human nature. Sadly, there are folks who love to flaunt their personal feelings in the face of others, often (not always) just to get more attention.

Responsibility for our actions - and their effects on others - is one of the traits of adulthood.

Tom

I actually agree - to a point. The idea that we should self-moderate saying what we feel and consider the setting and circumstances, and the feelings of others, is PRECISELY why I don't use this forum to "flaunt" my personal ideology - even though I would be well within my rights to do so since I own the place. I make an honest effort not to use my forum as an open platform to espouse my views for exactly the reason you stated - respect for others. I may have private discussions with people that I would not post on the forum, but that's an entirely different matter.

I apologize if I'm sounding a bit defensive here, but I'm perceiving that it is being suggested that if I show outward support for someone or something that I genuinely admire or believe in, that somehow I'm "flaunting" my personal feelings - that is to say I'm doing it for the purpose of upsetting others. Nothing could be further from the truth, at least in my case - I can't speak for others.

I do agree though that often people put things on their cars for the express purpose of attention-getting and flaunting their views in a way that they know would be offensive to others. Almost daily I see cars with bumper stickers plastered all over the back end that are decidedly negative towards things I believe in. These are not bumper stickers that simply show support for a person or idea, but rather that denigrate the things I believe in. Obviously those people are within their rights. Equally obviously they are flaunting their views and doing so in a manner that thumbs their nose at those of us who may not hold the same views. I have never put a bumper sticker on my car that was a slam towards someone or something - only positive statements, for example.

The other day I was in a local Subway shop and some fellow had a T-shirt on with the name of some singer and his "band" (we'll just call the singer Dave). This particular singer - we'll call him Dave - is someone I personally abhor and whose value system is very different than my own. Should that fellow with the T-Shirt not have shown his support as a fan of this "singer" because I (and probably many others like me) might find this particular singer's views offensive in many ways? Think about that for a minute. The guy's T-shirt wasn't a slam for anything I believe in, it was just showing support as a fan of someone he obviously likes. I have worn T-shirts myself with John Lennon's face - because I'm a fan of his music -period. Yet, there are some people who can't stand Lennon because of his often stated political views. Should I have NOT worn my Lennon T-shirt because I know there are people who don't like Lennon because of his political views?

I don't intentionally do things or show support for things for the purpose of offending others. But at the same time, I served my country for 24 years to defend our Constitution and feel that I should be afforded the same respect when I express my views as I show others when they express views or support for things that I don't happen to agree with.

Some people will take offense at almost anything these days, but seriously, what a sad state of affairs it would be if we all felt we had to live like cloistered monks for fear we might "offend" someone if we show support for something or someone or some cause we believe in. If our Founding Fathers had taken that approach to life we'd have never become a country.

This is a fascinating discussion and, while I understand and respect what you guys are saying, I hope that I too am making some points that make sense to you on some level.

 

[Steve_S]

If you were referring to any of my posts, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you were flaunting anything or intentionally trying to antagonize. The guy with he shirt is a good analogy. He is well within his right to wear it and in this country no one has the right so say otherwise. My position in this discussion is that he shouldn't be surprised if someone like you, only with far less self control and understanding, confronts him. It may not be right to confront him, but the fact that it isn't right doesn't mean that it won't happen. If he doesn't want confrontation then he knows he can simply not wear the shirt, which is a public endorsement for the band he likes, in public.

Remember that while you may view a bumper sticker or shirt as showing support for your favorite personality, others may view it as showing support for something that conflicts with their belief system, which is no different than putting a sticker on your car with their favorite personality and the word "sucks" after it. Same thing only different!

Again, no argument, just a varying viewpoint from the same side of the line.

 

[Monark192]

LAUDASF - seen on a Honda with the worlds largest, loudest muffler.

 

[maynard]

Don't know if it is true or not, but I heard of a person in S. Dakota who had a vanity plate "NONE." He gor rid of it after receiving 100's of notices in the mail about unpaid tickets. Turned out the computer referenced him every time a police officer wrote a ticket for a car without a plate (they would put NONE in the license plate space).

 

[Basil]

Don't know if it is true or not, but I heard of a person in S. Dakota who had a vanity plate "NONE." He gor rid of it after receiving 100's of notices in the mail about unpaid tickets. Turned out the computer referenced him every time a police officer wrote a ticket for a car without a plate (they would put NONE in the license plate space).

LOL! :lol:

 

[coldplugs]

My favorite was the woman in New Hampshire who somehow erased the state's motto "Live Free or Die" from her license plate. She was cited and the state hounded her for ages and eventually took her to court. Seems ironic,somehow - she wasn't allowed to be very "free".

These days, license plates are creating all sorts of first amendment issues all over the country.

 

[Brooklands]

Snopes has a number of verified versions of NONE including MISSING, NOTAG, and NO PLATE. You have to love bureaucracy and computers.