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Clutch probs

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TRnorwegian

TRnorwegian

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My clutch doesn't work. It doesn't disconnect engine from wheels when I press the pedal, and it's also impossible to change gears when engine is running.

The car has rested the last couple of months due to snowy conditions, and even before this something seemed wrong. A metallic noise came from the clutch/ gear-area when accellerating, and the clutch pedal was harder to press than should be expected even from a car like this. Also when depressing the clutch slowly it didn't connect smooth, but very rugged.
And yesterday everything went from bad to disaster operationwise. Any suggestions to what can be the problem?
 
Need more info.
Which Triumph?
year model
Are hydralics working? pedal hard, soft, goes to the floor w/o resistance.
Does metalic noise increase with engine rev's?
Is noise a scraping or grinding or marbles in a coffee can?
Can you feel anything related to the noise thruogh the pedal? By that I mean a vibration or pulsing like something kicking back through the hydralic line.

Jim
 
Oooh, no matter what, those kinds of symptoms are really bad poopie.

Something's come unglued down there. Either the clutch disc is worn out/broken, or the throwout bearing's shot.

I think TRNorwegian has a 6. Engine's coming out I'm afraid.
 
I typically have a similar problem with my MG after winter storage. Sounds like the clutch is rusted to the pressure plate and flywheel.

Try this:

First.. see if the clutch slave is functioning..If yes then..

Start the car in neutral and let it warm up.

Shut it off and push it out in the drive way, put it in gear and have your friends give you a push start and take off down the road.

Give it some throttle with the clutch pushed in and it may break things free.

Otherwise hope for little traffic and no stop lights and enjoy a little ride back to the house.

If you don't have any friends.. Jack up the rear end, start the car in gear and get the rear wheels spinning (10mph).. and hop on the clutch and brake at the same time. It should break things free or break something..If you don't have a locking differential you only need to jack up one wheel.

Good luck..
 
71MKIV said:
...Something's come unglued down there. Either the clutch disc is worn out/broken, or the throwout bearing's shot....
Click to expand...
:iagree: Sounds a bit like what happened in my Herald several years ago. On that car, a piece of the pressure plate broke as I went for an upshift from 1st to 2nd. I managed to get the car home by matching rev's and shifting without the clutch...then I pulled the gearbox and replaced the entire clutch.
 
Time to get up close and friendly with your car. I would pull the transmission and have a look-see. It can come out through the car's interior.
 
bgbassplyr said:
Need more info.
Which Triumph?
year model
Are hydralics working? pedal hard, soft, goes to the floor w/o resistance.
Does metalic noise increase with engine rev's?
Is noise a scraping or grinding or marbles in a coffee can?
Can you feel anything related to the noise thruogh the pedal? By that I mean a vibration or pulsing like something kicking back through the hydralic line.

Jim
Click to expand...

1973 TR6. Not sure if the hydraulics are working. The pedal is hard, too hard in my opinion.
The noise does not increase with the rev, but seems to have relation to G-force (occur when accelerating, cornering and such).
The noise seem independant of pedal work, and cannot be felt through the pedal, steering wheel or other handling gear. It may be a totally independant matter from the clutch.
Scraping is what describes it best. As if a metal part scrapes the tarmac underneath when driving/accellerating.

Anders
 
71MKIV said:
Oooh, no matter what, those kinds of symptoms are really bad poopie.

Something's come unglued down there. Either the clutch disc is worn out/broken, or the throwout bearing's shot.

I think TRNorwegian has a 6. Engine's coming out I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

Regarding condition on the part, this is what previous owner of this 73 TR6 listed in that regard: "New clutch master cylinder; Clutch pressure plate/bearing and clutch disc."
The car has probably been driven only 1000 - 1500 miles since then (previous owner in Florida did a rebuild). Could the quality on parts or labour be sub-standard?

I am doubtful to possible rusting to the pressure plate and flywheel, since the clutch operated when driving off (however not perfect, and with the noise occurring frequently), but got worse when having driven 5 miles or so.

If a piece of the pressure plate has broken off, and jammed itself between the plate and flywheel, could this explain both lack of function and the previous noise?

How do I check the hydraulic? Must the gearbox come out through the interior?
To "pull the transmission" for a quick look sounds like a big project to a newbee as I am.

Thanks, Anders
 
Anders,

"My clutch doesn't work. It doesn't disconnect engine from wheels when I press the pedal, and it's also impossible to change gears when engine is running."

First, jack the car up, insert jack stands, and have someone press the clutch pedal while you watch it. If the plunger rod/clutch accuating arm does not move or only moves slightly, then bleed the slave cylinder. This won't fix the noise, but is a place to start looking for shifting problems.

The description of your problem could be attributed to a number of things, not necessarly in this order.

1. Broken throw out bearing fork or fork pin (bolt), or throw out bearing gone bad.

2. Clutch pressure plate or driven disk broken with broken part(s) flailing around.

3. Galled transmisson bearing(s).

4. Flywheel cover plate loose or bent, hitting the flywheel. This is the stamped metal plate located on the bottom of the bell housing directly behind the oil pan.

5. Loose flywheel.

If the hydralics or flywheel cover plate doesn't fix it, the next step would be to remove the transmission so that you can get to the clutch, throwout bearing, fork, and flywheel.

If nothing there, transmission internals are next. Remmove the top cover (8 bolts). Shift lever, shift rods, and shift forks will come out as an assembly and you can then see all of the gears and the front and rear main shaft bearings.

Drain the oil and look for broken gear teeth or any other metal that may be there. Brass powder in the oil is from the snychro rings and is normal.

If you still haven't found the problem, then you're working on the wrong car.

I hope it's something simple but have no faith that it is. Good Luck and let me know what you find.

Jim
 
look at Brosky's site. You should find a plethora of experience info on clutches there.
 
Do the 6's have issues with thrust washers like the Spit's do?

Grinding noise, no release, clutch pedal is hard to push. Hmmm something's definitly wonky.

The no release and metalic noises would have me worried.

I know Spitfires, not 6's. Is there a way of watching the clutch shaft working when someone pushes on the pedal?
 
Easiest way to check the hydraulics is to put the car on jack stands (or a lift) and have a helper press the clutch pedal while you watch the motion of the slave. If the pushrod moves by 1/2" for a full stroke of the pedal, the hydraulics are working OK.

But your comment about the operation not being smooth certainly sounds like trouble inside the bellhousing to me. There are unfortunately a lot of bad parts running around these days; and manufacturers swap around so fast that it's impossible to keep track of good vs bad. One of our local club members had the metal fingers of his TR6 friction plate break; and there are all sorts of substitutes being sold for the throwout bearing and pressure plate, by those who have become frustrated with poor quality replacements.

I believe through the interior is actually the easy way to get the gearbox out; the other option is to pull the engine and gearbox as a unit (which still involves some disassembly of the interior). But you are quite right, it's a big project either way.
 
"Must the gearbox come out through the interior?"

Unless you pull the engine, this is the only other way. Not all that bad. Remove the seats, carpet, transmission cover.
Put a jack under the engine to support it.
Unbolt the bell housing, drive shaft, and rear trans mount.
Using another jack raise and support the trans, work both jacks and jack on the engine and trans to the point that you can break the bell housing loose.
Wiggle and wrestle the trans until it is supported on it's jack, the move it onto the passenger side floor board and then out of the car. You can do it alone, but eaiser with help.

Jim

PS If you have a service manual, it should have a description and pictures of this operation.
 
71MKIV said:
Do the 6's have issues with thrust washers like the Spit's do?
Click to expand...
They do, and crank end play wouldn't be a bad thing to check. Easy to do, and if it's wrong might as well pull both engine and transmission as a unit.

But I don't think a bad or even missing TW would affect clutch operation like that.
 
I know from experience, (not on my car thankfully) that missing tw's will result in no clutch release, and experience on my car, the clutch released but made awfull noises.
 
Just checking the obvious...
Have you checked the hydraulic fluid in the clutch master cylinder?
Are there any hydraulic leaks under the clutch pedal?
No fluid=no pushrod movement.
 
This used to happen to me every year until I learned the old 2x4 trick. What happens is that moisture condenses on the flywheel and/or pressure plate which causes a little rust. This sticks the surfaces together. Next autumn, when it's time to put the car in storage for the winter, find a short length of 2x4 wood and wedge it between the clutch pedal and the seat. This simulates holding your foot on the pedal, and this will keep the surfaces apart. If you drive your TR all season this trick isn't necessary.
 
TR3driver said:
...I believe through the interior is actually the easy way to get the gearbox out...
Click to expand...

Sure, and the guys who climb Mt Everest mostly go up 'the easy way'.

IOW, out thru the interior (via passenger side with seat removed, etc) is the easiest way, but as suggested eliminate the many external possibilities first.
 
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