&$#*&[% Car Still Won't Start

[abnovak]

OK, getting frustrated. 79 MG Midget 1500. It was sitting about 9-10 years before I bought it and it didn't start when I got it, hence the good deal. Engine was rebuilt 5000 miles before it went into storage.

Here is what has been done:

1. New Fuel Pump, Filter and hoses.
2. Removed fuel tank to confirm condition and blew out the line.
3. Pulled the carb and checked it. All seals and gaskets seem good. All internal passages free. Needle does not appear to stick. New oil in the damper. Float seems to move freely.
4. Checked high tension lead by grounding each plugs and then the coil wire. Good sparks in all instances.
5. Checked low tension lead by using a check light. Grounded to engine ground and made contact with the points (really the curved metal arm running to the points, I forget the name). It did light up.
6. Points seem fine. Curious - went to Autozone to replace points and condenser just in case and they tell me I am supposed to have electronic ignition. Don't understand. Manual talks to points.
7. Points have been gapped. New Plugs have been gapped.
8. Validated timing (99% sure). Turn to TDC, ensured the rotor was at #1 firing position. Wiring flows 1-3-4-2 (prior owner didnt have it that way) with #1 cyl at the front of the car working backwards.
9. New spark plug wires, cap and rotor.
10. Engine turns freely. All valves and rockers appear to move correctly.

My only thought is gas is not getting into the intake manifold from the carb. I went to pull the carb and gas dripped from the where the carb meets the manifold - didn't pour but definitely there.

Stuck valve? Will pull the head later if I run out of other things to check.

Would a broken auto choke do this. All the valves and arms move freely after oiling and I pretty sure I reassembled correctly.

When starting, it never fully starts but the exhaust sputters, mini backfires - not very strong.

Will check compression but seems like that would just make it run poorly - not keep it from starting.

Any ideas at all - help please?? My wife is finally excited about one of my project cars and I would really like to give her this one soon.

 

[Bugeye58]

It certainly sounds like a severe lack of compression. After sitting that long, there is a good possibility that either the rings are stuck, or the valves have rusted. The last one I had like that required a good dose of Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders over a period of a week, to help free up the rings, and a head removal to clean up the valves.
Do the compression test, and a leakdown test if possible, and let us know.
Jeff

 

[TypeRboy]

Hmmmm.. Could be the cam is 180 out as well Oh no never mind, I see that it was running before it was stored. Are you sure of the distributer rotation? Check it just for fun to see if the cap is wired in the right direction.

You can always spray in some liquid fire. If it's a fuel problem that will fire the car right up for a few seconds anyway..

 

[aeronca65t]

Soak the cylinders for several days with a light lube (as Jeff has suggested).
After cranking for while with plugs removed, to get rid of excess oil in cylinders, do a compression test. Minimum should be 100 psi.
Use NEW plugs (Autolite #63s are fine for the street and are cheap). Clean used plugs will often misfire, but may look OK.
Be sure the plugs wires are correct direction for rotor turning (1-3-4-2)....it's easy to screw this up.
If you use starting fluid, have a fire extinquisher handy.
With valve cover off, turn engine until front piston is all the way up and verify that both valves are fully closed (and rotor is positioned to fire on #1). Then turn crank exactly one full turn and verify that exhaust valve is fully open. If you can't get engine to do this, cam timing is off.
My '78 1500 had points, by the way.

 

[abnovak]

Verified compression today. All cyls are at 100psi.

Not familiar with a leak down test - how do it do that?

 

[aeronca65t]

[ QUOTE ]
Verified compression today. All cyls are at 100psi.

Not familiar with a leak down test - how do it do that?

[/ QUOTE ]

https://www.vclassics.com/archive/leakdown.htm

 

[screenprinter]

My two cents worth - If you have that much compression It probably indictes the timing is severely off like the man said earlier - If you have fuel, air ans spark and the timings is correct or near correct it should at least start -

I've gotten a distributor 180 deg out just by turning the drive dog half a turn before reinserting - and it sounded just about like what you describe - It'd jump around and pop and snap like an Apache full of Pinto beans, but it wouldn't start - If the leakdown test ( I don't know how to do one either) Aeronca65t prescribes come back ok try switching your wires around - There's only four and it'll show you right away if that's the problem -

Then you have to reconcile how it got set up that way -

Good Luck

Bob M.

 

[abnovak]

Thanks to all your help, my car is now running - roughly. Although I know I checked it first in my diagnostics and I had a friend later check it with me, the timing was off about 120 degrees.

I am pretty sure the fuel pump went bad for the previous owner but he didn't realize it. To try to get the car running, he replaced quite a bit of the ignition system and did it incorrectly.

I set the timing pretty close but have more work to do. I have one cyl that really doesn't feel right. But, as I said compression is good. I found a friend with the equip for a leakdown test, which I will run next weekend.

Next, going use Marvel Mystery oil on the head/valves and check the valve clearances.

1 - I have a tach/dwell meter to better tune. I can't seem to find the right contact points. I am more accustom to old Fords. Suggestions?

2 - Other than changing all fluids, lubing all grease points, bleeding brakes, tires - any other safety inspections items important for MGs I should do prior to taking it on the road. Remember, it sat for about 9-10 years.

Agains, thanks a ton for all the help. You guys are great! Really looking forward to having some fun with this car.

 

[aeronca65t]

I understand the issues with a car that has sat a long time: my race car sat for 12 years and I bought a 1275 Midget last month that sat for 10 years.

If your points look like this, they are from a regular Lucas 25D distributor:

https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29338

If they look like this, you have a Delco distributor (probably swapped out of a 1500 Spitfire…it has same engine, but uses the Delco distributor).

https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=33036

There are two other styles of distributors in the 1500 Midget, but both are electronic. The Moss Motors website is very useful in figuring this type of stuff out.

 

[abnovak]

Thanks. Actually, I was asking how to connect the diagnostics to the engine. I have a friend/mechanic coming over to help but if you have suggestions, that would be great.

I now have to have my radiator re-cored. First of many issues, I am sure.

 

[trrdster2000]

Hi, you seem to be having all the routine problems of getting a car and then having to figure out what the other clowns have done wrong. Here is one item you should check before you have a bad first run. The brakes will properly bleed just fine, if not you will be able to see where you have a problem, but one thing that happens on the front brake, is caliper will not release and the front brake will hang up and over heat. To check it, just jack the front end up, put on the brake and release, see if the wheel turns fairly free after about a quarter of a turn of the wheel. It will not free up completely until you get the rust off the caliper. Hope you don't have the problem. Wayne

 

[abnovak]

Re: &$#*&[% Car Still Won't Start - She LIVES!

Just an update. She's running and with a little tuning I expect we will have her on the road in no time. I let my wife start if (its going to be her's) after I set the gaps on the valves last night, and she was almost giddy. This is gonna be fun - thanks to everyone for the help.