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Brake Drum Help - 60 Sprite

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mikeamondo

Jedi Hopeful
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Tried posting this once, but it disappeared... sorry for a duplicate if there is one...

Trying to get into the back brakes.... Can't get the drum off the hub. It turns freely, so the brakes are not dragging. I have not turned the adjuster in, as I don't know how.... While looking for tricks and tips, I saw a msg about tapping on the end of the studs.... so I tried that. Tapped very lightly.... one of the studs pushed back into the hub.... I could pull it back out to allow turning of the drum, but at that point I figured I ask here for some advice before continuing to bang on my 60 year old car! So....

1) Have I damaged the stud and created a new nightmare for myself?
2) How do I move the adjuster.... seems to be a square turner... what tool am I looking for? See the pic, next post...
3) How can I remove the drum from the hub? Do I just need to beat the living **** out of it? There are no set screws in the holes for them.

I'm going to follow this post up with 2 pics I've taken... 1 of the drum overview and 1 closeup of the adjuster thru the hole. It doesn't quite line up the hole, by the way...

Any help here appreciated! Thanks
Mike
 
Ok.. so here's 2 pics... 1 of the drum and 1 closeup of the adjuster....
Brake Drum.jpgBrake drum 1.jpg
 
That little square 1/4' or it my be a 5/16 is your adjuster. Lube with WD-40 or PB Blaster and let it sit for a day or two if it is not free to move. Are there discs on the front. If not front drums have two adjustment screws one for each shoe. Anyway try to get adjuster free and unscrew it IIRC Counter Clockwise to loosen. Adjuster is installed form the inside of the drum so it will not come all of the way out. Once adjuster is loose, tap the drum with a rubber mallet and pry gently all around to get the drum off.

BTW, why are you removing drum, smply a brake inspection, leaky brakes, or leaking rear diff fluid on the wheels. Give us some more details on why you are trying to remove.

Once you get the drum off take pics as getting all of the springs back on correctly is a challenge.

If Axle seals are leaking you've got other challenges we can help you with.
 
Oh yeah, Brake Fluid pouring out of drum. Will need to make sue if it is brake fluids or loose axle seal. We can help once you get the drum off. And help you deal with the Circlip that holds the wheel cylinder in place. And while you are doing this you should replace both Wheel Cylinders as well as the flex hose that runs from the solid line to the axle. Be very careful getting that one apart, wrench on both sides so you don't twist / kink the brake line. IF wheel cylinder is the culprit. a Circlip Install Tool will save you a whole lot of frustration and use of words your kinds or grandkids should not hear. With the tool a simple process to install circlips. Winners Circle sells the tool and maybe MOSS Carries it now. Get the drum off. take pics . it may actually be an axle seal.
 
Mike -
You access the adjuster from behind the backing plate, not through the drum inspection hole. It will be a square head at the 6 o'clock position. Spray it down, then gently work it CW and CCW until it turns freely. I usually use a small crescent wrench. The brake drum probably has a little ridge worn in to the braking surface from the shoes doing their job. Adjust the shoes full in, then tap, wiggle, persuade the drum off.
 
Your brakes have been changed to the later style if a 60 BE is what we are talking about. The brake adjuster you have didn't come on a BE. I agree with the other guys on the best procedure and the stud backing out is not really a concern. They are just a press fit in the hub with a head on the back side.

Kurt
 
Thanks for all the input.... It is, at least according to the title, a '60 Bugeye, so I guess it has brakes from a slightly newer car.... any idea from what? I'd like to make some notes about what's actually on him. Never thought for a second to look behind the plate for another access.... I'll get that a shot and grab my rubber mallet.

Pretty sure it's brake fluid, as it pours out when I hit the brakes and the pedal goes the floor... and the level in the master goes down. However.... is there brake fluid in the axle?

We have a funeral to attend today, so no work until Tuesday at the earliest. Glad to know there's a special clip in there needing a special tool. I'll seek out a 'circlip' tool.....
Thanks!
Mike
 
Wait! Is a 'circlip' the same as a 'snap ring'? I've got those....

Oh... and thanks, Kurt, for easing my mind on the stud backing out. I had hoped that was the case.
 
Brakes are simply from a later model spridget. The circlip is an external snap ring. Replacement wheel cylinders use an E-ring.
There are two different sizes of late model wheel cylinders.
I suggest calling Peter Caldwell at World Wide Auto Parts of Madison -- he knows spridgets very well.
He will talk to you on the phone and help you identify the parts you need and sell them to you at a reasonable cost. [FONT=&quot](800) 362-1025[/FONT]
 
And if you have later Rear Brakes hope you have disc brakes up front.

Could be solid line attaching to wheel cylinder. Line Broken or just bad rear Wheel Cylinder.
 
E-Clip an issue to Install. Standard Circlip that you use a snap Ring Pliers on is too weak to hold securely. The tool needed is $38.95 from Moss. Search for Circlip Tool.
 
So, nothing new to report until tomorrow when I can try some of the suggestions to pull the hub. In the meantime... If I understand correctly... I'll need the snap ring pliers to pull the circlip that is likely on my existing cylinder, and then the e-ring specific tool to put on the e ring that will come with my new cylinders. And... I'm pretty sure it's drums all around.... is there a problem with newer spridget drums on the back without disks up front?
 
I'll disagree with Jim. I prefer the circlip and wavy washer over the e-clip. If you order your parts from peter he can provide you with the proper size circlip and washer.
BTW, I have no financial interest in my recommendation.

It would be odd to switch the rear brakes and not the front, unless someone just did a complete axle swap
 
Early Sprites had a single acting rear wheel cly. Adjuster was accessed thru hole in face of drum with a moderately large blade type screw driver... turn clockwise/in to push shoes out, reverse to back off. Later sprites had a dual acting cyl. as discussed above. Adjuster was tapered wedge that turned in to tighten, out to loosen from rear side of backing plate... You can use either on early car, but need the right backing plate/parts. Bleeders/lines are different.

If drum rotates freely, still might get hung on shoes when they hit a ridge on inside...needs shoes backed off more...

You don't want to hit on studs, but sounds like not a big issue on one you hit... can pull back into place with 3/8 fine thread nut/washers against drum while on, or do something similar after removing drum...

As far as hitting... often needs some encouragement with big hammer..... I often hit drum in radial direction, at front edge to break loose.. sometimes you can give a pop on back lip, or hit in on face on one side to rock drum on studs.. also can use big pry bar against back plate to get it going... Rotate the drum/postion of blows while doing it, not just in one spot... Of course always possible to brake the drum or parts... do make sure you pulled out any screw holding drum to hub (countersunk screws on front side..might require impact driver to break loose...holds drum onto hub so don't come off when wheel is removed...)

Use plenty of LPS or penetrating fluid around studs/id of drum...

Guess, that's about all I had to add...... If you have replace the tubing at cylinders, make sure you do bubble flare right, use half, not full flare to get bubble... also, the backing nuts from BMC have extended nose without threads on first bit after flare... US fittings (long ones, not those short jobs) will work, but you must remove the first 2-3 threads, or they bottom out before the flare gets seated... can use a grinder to remove threads, but make sure to run die down..get threads right... 3/8 x 24, fine... works..

Good luck.

Okie
 
And Trevor I tried Circlip w Wavy Washer and it did not feel right and I didn 't feel I could trust it. As in life YMMV. I'm betting on a complete rear end swap as someone broke a half shaft.
 
So.... Mr. Mechanic here never once thought to look at the back plate to find an adjuster. Saw the big hole up front in the drum and that was that. Ugh.... Two quick turns in on the adjusters and the drum came off (with some enthusiastic encouragement from my rubber mallet.) So here are some pics of the brakes ... haven't cleaned them up yet. Sun is shining, grass is knee high... gotta mow. I can see some things right away....
1) Loads of grease, but I think it's likely a mixture of brake residue and the massive amount of fluid that was pouring out of the bottom of the drum in a stream....
2) Front shoe is way tapered and has a grove at the top from something.... actually, the material is gone from the bottom part of the shoe.
3) Rear shoe doesn't seem to have the same taper...
While I mow... do you guys have thoughts here? I'm assuming new cylinders and new shoes, both sides....
Also... it is a hard line all the way to the cylinder in the back.. no rubber. And def. has drums all around....
Thanks!
Mike101_0041.jpg101_0045.jpg101_0042.jpg101_0043.jpg101_0044.jpg
 
If it were mine, I'd replace the wheel cylinder, shoes, drums, axle seals, gaskets, and o-rings, along with the brake hose. The cost of those parts is relatively small and it is best to just renew the consumable parts while you are into that area.

You will need to measure the inner bore of the wheel cylinder to know which one you need.

Also, you might have interference with the new drums and the backplate ... easily fixed with a angle grinder.
 
The flex line is only from the diff to the body. It’s probably shot.
 
And Front Flex Hoses need to be replaced as well. If rears were worn like that might be caused by not retracting properly due to a plugged rear hose. They collapse internally with no visible signs.
 
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