Boeing accidents

[Gliderman8]

Way to go Paul!

 

[pdplot]

I gave it up some years ago. I have a-fib and take medication that disqualified me for flying even though I haven't had more than 10 minutes of a-fib in the last 5 years. Most if not all of the restaurants I flew to, closed some years ago. The fleet was aging and it was getting expensive. Good flying days are also good golf days. I had gone to almost every place I wanted to at least once. After 9/11, security became much tighter and the atmosphere changed.

 

[DavidApp]

Is the Self Certification system partly due to the increasing complexity and integration of the computer systems in aircraft. The FAA may not have the expertise to be able to fully dig into the computers.
Just a thought.

One of my wifes relatives is retired FAA and would joke that the main part of his job was sales trying to get the training programs adopted.

David

 

[TR3driver]

Curiously enough, I read that Boeing did supply two methods of verifying that the two sensors agree; but only as extra-cost options!

One of the changes they are making in response to the crash last year is to make one of those methods (a warning light) standard equipment, and retrofit existing aircraft.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...e-upgrade-sources-idUSKCN1R20CU?feedType=RSS&

I think there are 2 of the angle of attack sensors one on each side of the aircraft and it seems there may have been a disagreement between the 2 sensors indicating different angles of attack..
Seems that they are easily damaged when the aircraft is on the ground so a backup system or a way of verifying the information would seem like a good idea.

 

[TR3driver]

Is the Self Certification system partly due to the increasing complexity and integration of the computer systems in aircraft. The FAA may not have the expertise to be able to fully dig into the computers.
Just a thought.

Probably true, but to my mind that would fall under the heading of "Excuses for not doing my job." If they lack the expertise, they should go find some, not set a fox to watch the hen house.

Of course, there are people who feel we don't need federal oversight agencies like the FAA at all. But they are usually kind of quiet after something like this happens.

 

[TR3driver]

Oops! Looks like the second pilots DID follow Boeing procedure; and it didn't work!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...125942-4fec-11e9-bdb7-44f948cc0605_story.html

 

[Deleted member 8987]

Didn't I read...last couple of days.....one of the crashes, they turned to system off, got it leveled, and for some unknown reason, turned it back on, and crashed? Or is that something else......

 

[DrEntropy]

Didn't I read...last couple of days.....one of the crashes, they turned to system off, got it leveled, and for some unknown reason, turned it back on, and crashed? Or is that something else......

Heard the same thing earlier today.

 

[Boink]

Heard the same thing earlier today.

The news report I heard, when they turned if off they were flying too fast... and given the new engine positions on the wings (with this model further forward), the craft became unstable. With that instability, due to speed, they turned it back on... and fought it.

 

[NutmegCT]

If you check Boeing's website on the MCAS issue, you find that the pilot can disengage the MCAS using a toggle on the stick. But it automatically re-engages in five seconds.

Pilot can also disengage MCAS by removing power from the horizontal stabilizer motors. But that completely removes any attitude/angle of attack control. Not good!

You begin to wonder - just how much did the crew know about how that brand new system operates?

 

[pdplot]

Technology will be the death of all of us.

 

[DavidApp]

The unintended consequences of technology.

David

 

[TR3driver]

Pilot can also disengage MCAS by removing power from the horizontal stabilizer motors. But that completely removes any attitude/angle of attack control. Not good!

One of the other articles talks about removing power, then using a manual trim wheel. But the WP article above has the line:
"Experts say that the airplane was traveling too fast for the manual trim wheel to be operated."

So it may be that they turned off power, discovered they couldn't turn the hand wheel, and turned power back on to try trimming with the power (but non-automatic) controls.

Or, they may have just been trying to repeat the given recovery sequence. Boeing said it worked, and they “performed all the procedures, repeatedly ...". Can't turn those breakers off (one of the steps) unless they are turned on.

 

[DavidApp]

An Australian 60 Minutes look at the 737 MAX 8

David

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QytfYyHmxtc