Body panels and door gaps

[BOBBYR]

Hi Guys,
Lately, I'm in the mode of buying parts and planning to replace all outriggers and sill plates on my 65 BJ8 . I know I'm opening a can of worms doing this, but if I don't do the job right , I know it's going to haunt me . I have a schematic of a bt7 and it seems that the outrigger measurements and sills are measured from the center of the front motor mounts . I think the bj8 measurements will be the same . I would like to get your opinions on going down this road . Hope you're all doing well .
Bobby R

 

[roscoe]

Most will tell you that you will need to cross brace your door openings to maintain the original geometry and there is likely some good advice there. They may also point out that having the drive train installed when you do this is best because of any frame flex that it may cause would not be present if the motor and gearbox were not installed. I did my outriggers and sill plates without heeding any of that advice and it may have had some effect on the finished job but I am happy with the fit and finish despite going out of my mind fitting the doors when I was at that stage. If you like your door gaps I would at the very least take some accurate measurements and be sure they are still correct before you weld in any new parts. The drawings are fine but we all know body panels are not readily interchangeable and these cars are all a little different from each other. You won't have a pile of doors to go through to get the best fit. I think there are plenty of old threads abut this and some good photos of the cross bracing that some have made to do this sort of job. I've only done this once and the most memorable part of it was getting the old outriggers off. Nasty job. A spot weld drill and some good thin weld breaking chisels. Unless you have a spot welder be prepared to use another method. I suppose you could cut them out in big chunks and grind off the last bits but I wanted to use my old ones as rough patterns for trimming the new ones. I used mig and oxy acetlyene to put in the new parts but it is not quite as clean to do that unless you do a lot of bead grinding when compared to spot welding.

 

[vette]

Hi Bob, As Roscoe said put in plenty of bracing. I braced my door openings with one horizontal brace at the top of the openings. Since I didn't have to remove my inner sills I figured that the inner sills would ensure that the lower part of the door opening would stay consistent. the inner sills are about the only thing that I didn't have to remove, I also had to replace the latch pillars as well as the rear outriggers and floor, part of the driveshaft tunnel and the rear bulkhead behind the seats, also the fenders, that is a story in itself I hope you don't have to go to the extent that I did with the fenders. As far as locating the outriggers, I didn't read one body spec from any publication. I created datum lines and measuring points myself and put the outrigger back in exactly the same spots the old ones were. My main data line for the outriggers was one of the braces that I welded in to brace the cockpit. I welded it in laterally right across just behind where the seat were and directly above the outriggers. It was welded to the tops of the inner fender panels a few inches above the rear seats but directly about the outriggers. I dropped measurements from this bar (it was 1/2 " angle iron) to the outrigger especially to the outer end of the outrigger. I took measurements also from rear seat vertical bulkhead at its lowest point near the floor and at the point where it joined the inner fender panel. That point would not be moving while I had the outriggers out. My springs fit in perfectly when the job was done. I did keep the engine and trans mounted in the car while I did the body. I believe this does help to keep the body from shifting some while doing the work and it maintains the stress on the frame that is normally present. I have a few pictures that I can attach to show some of the work that can be done, I hope you don't have to go to the extent that I did to get panel to match. I bought new fenders for the rear that didn't even come close to fitting the car. I don't know who made the fenders but they were way off and I bought them with the agreement of no return so I decided to make them fit. Unfortunately I can't find pics of the outrigger installation. But in a few pics I can show you wil see (just barely) the cross brace that I used to drop measurements for the outriggers. i have 5 pics I may have to put a couple in another post. Dave.

 

[BOBBYR]

Hi rosco and Vette, I saw your post and agree with your approach on bracing the door openings. I know as I go thru this job , I'm going to find a total frame build . The outriggers are shot and I just received new outriggers and sills from A.H. Spares . At this point, Its time to do the full job. I'll start taking measurements today and start the tear down . Better get out the movie camera .
Bobby R

 

[rjc157]

Post a daily progress on youtube

 

[vette]

Just wanted to encourage you not to get discouraged. As some have said before me, we sometimes get well past our 2 year project goal. In my case it was almost 5 years to finish a 2 year restoration.
Of course I was still working full time at the time so it was mostly all Saturdays. And I waisted alot of time on those rear fenders. I should have thrown them out but as has been said, we don't have a bin full of extras and they are expensive. I also spent many months learning how to tig weld aluminum because my shrouds were torn. So enjoy the project. Dave.