BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate advice.

[robert_ellison]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

more photos:

In the bottom one the matching body line is slightly lower on the door but, if I added shims to bring it up the wing window frame, which already is too tight to fit, wouldn't fit at all (see vent photo above post)

 

[big6]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

Taking a solid rule and using a level, the door openings of my BJ7 measures 30 1/2 inches on both sides of the car. The door opening is parallel and does not make a difference if it is the top, middle or bottom. I have my BJ7 presently on a frame jig so the frame is level. All door opening measurements were taken level.

 

[stevebn2bj7]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

It looks like there may be something a bit amiss with that rear shroud finisher. The bottom should be right on top of the fender bead, yours looks to be about a 1/2 inch above. Either that or the finisher itself is the wrong dimension. Was the rear shroud ever off the car? If so, was the front pushed down as far as it could go when it was reinstalled? The door does not look to be that far off at the swage line.

 

[GregW]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

I measured the top of my door yesterday and also got 30½”. I agree with Steve that your shroud is too high where it meets the door (top of shroud to top of fender distance is too great). I’m not sure what you mean by sill backing? It is possible that when you replaced the sills, the rear inner fender may have shifted on you and was welded back in a different spot.

First thing I’d do, is get the wheels on the car and get it on the ground. That could change a lot of things.

One other thing, the chrome trim that goes around the rear of the shroud, are all the screws holding it in? If you squeeze it against the shroud, does it move at all? Any slack will make it project forward towards the door.

 

[robert_ellison]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

Greg.

What I mean by sill backing is the front to back box section welded between the rear and front inner fender. What is it actually called? I'll check out all the issues mentioned. Unfortunately my trimming of the doors shouldn't have been done & I suppose that I'll have to grind them down and add the width that I removed.

Ho hum, one step forward, two steps back.

Thanks again for the aid!

Robert

 

[GregW]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

OK, I think what you're calling the sill is the rocker panel. The sill back is the sill. See the Moss ill. if I got it right. This is probably the most frustration part of a restoration. I've been and still am to a certain degree, right where you are. So I know how you feel.

 

[Cutlass]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

The door opening is determined by the location of the hinge pillar and the shut fact pillar. If you replaced the rockers, you necessarily cut the bottom of these pillars from the rockers. Improper relocation of these parts after installing new rockers would account for an improper opening width at the bottom. Too wide an opening at the top could be a function of frame flex. Place the car, fully assembled, on its wheels and measure the top opening again. If the opening decreases significantly then, you are dealing with a flexing frame. The frame can be reinforced from the inside, by opening a hole, insering a properly sized length of angle iron, and plug welding at intervals, closing the opening afterwards.

If the pillars are incorrectly installed, they can be cut from the rockers and re-positioned. Caution, here, though. The pillars in part determine the position of the fenders. This operation calls for careful fitting and checking of panel fit beofre committing to final welding.

If either or both of the above are the problem, I would certainly advise getting someone to do the job who has the knowledge, experience and patience to do it right. This is neither simple, quick nor inexpensive.

Getting the doors to the right size shouldn't be too big of a problem.

I hope I'm wrong about the above, but with the history of rocker relplacement, odd opening measurements and the prior need to modify the doors, this just doesn't seem to be a quick fix problem.

 

[Cutlass]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

Just remembered something. The pillar location is not solely determined by their location on the rockers. You can replace the rockers without cutting the pillars completely loose, so all the above may not be the problem. Hope not.

 

[robert_ellison]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

I just discovered these excellent tutorials on replacing sills, A & B pillers and all related sections. They are for restoration on an Aston-Martin but the process is similar for the Healey.

https://www.aston-v8.co.uk/
https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/sills.htm

Robert

 

[anthony7777]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

Robert Ellison, thanks for the Aston martin stuff really helps to clarify things, i have a similar situation as far as door gaps on my 63 bj7 that i managed to correct by shimming the door but i know more attention is needed on the r/s passenger door, ive been to a couple of local body shops and showed them my car but could not agree on how they proposed to address the issue and their prices way off the charts, like they say if you want it done right do it yourself.

 

[Cutlass]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

I love to do things myself. But the line is drawn here with me. Over the past year, I have watched the slow, difficult and expensive steps taken by an experienced Healy body man required to bring the doors and body panels into proper fit and alignment on my 66 BJ8. While not black magic, this stuff is complicated. Every step you take in one area affects the entire car, it seems. I've been through what Robert is experiencing. Not fun. Good news is that the result is fantastic.

 

[GregW]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

One thing that comes to mind as a possibility. When the sill was removed, the lower structural support for the hinge pillar (which is welded to the outer side panel) would be gone. The pedal box brace would hold it in position somewhat, but there could have been some sag to the hinge pillar that wasn’t addressed when welding the sill back in. An eighth of an inch sag at the pillar would equate to a much larger degree of off-ed-ness at the rear door-to-shut pillar. An additional thing to check is how the aluminum finisher fits along the rocker and sill. While it rests on the rocker, how does it fit the sill? I would venture a guess that it will be too short at the back. The double fold that overhangs the sill will not reach over the sill and still be resting on the rocker panel. The arrow in this photo shows the direction that the hinge pillar would have sagged.

 

[BJ7archaeologist]

Re: BJ-7 Frame Reinforcement- Would appreciate adv

Robert,
I feel your pain with this issue. I have a 63 BJ7 #20040. I have been doing a frame off restoration the past 6 years. I have been in your exact same boat. I replaced inner and outer sills, floor pans, big rusty areas in the tops of frame rails and 2/3 of all the rea inner sheet metal. I made the mistake of removing the rear inner sheet metal from off of the car.
What I would do is make sure that your frame is level underneath. Look in the book or th back of the Haynes manual for dimensions. My frame was like an old sway back horse and I had to bend the rear 3 ft or so back down a slight bit. That should make your shroud come down at the top. I had as much overlap as you have. Also, like others have said, just a little change around the sill can make a big difference in the doors. I had cut and re-welded my inner panels so many times that I had to get a couple new ones because the the first replacement set was too garfed up. I had the doors off and on propbably 100 times or so. I too had not enough clearance like you.
Eventually, things came together, you just need to keep after it. I actually started at my front fender where the car dimensions were all original and no panels were replaced the got the front door gaps to fit well, shimmed ones side slightly, then worked on the rear door gap. I moved the new rear latch panel (B panel or post) to the back of the car 1/8 or a 1/4 of an inch. I actually had to grind about 1/8-3/16 off of the front of the shroud to get it to fit behind the little chrome finisher.

If I had it to do over, once I had my panels on (which always move when you weld them anyway unless you have them clamped in a jig). I would take the frame to a body shop, all wheels on the floor or at lease jack stands at the wheel points, then clamp the frame to the floor and use a portable hydraulic puller to get the dimensions correct. Then split the difference between the panels. I had to make holes bigger and really move stuff around but now my car is painted and my gaps look really good. All of the hard work is worth it in the end.
You could put the hydraulic ram, (I think that Harbor Freight sells them for $150 or so) inside of the car and brace it against the corners or the flooring, use a piece of wood to spread out the preassure of the ram, then push your sill out slightly if it needs it. You might get 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch doing this, I did.
As far as your doors being cut too much if they are, you can always get some 1/8 square stock at you local hardware store and tack weld it back on then grind to fit. I would finish it up with one of those all-metal type body fillers though. They tend to be stronger than typical polyester body fillers.
Note: If you jack your car up at the ends of the frame, beyond the wheels, especially at the rear, the door gaps can change as much as 1/4 of an inch at the top.

Randy
Healey-Archaeologist
63 BJ7
66 Cobra replica
06 Mini Cooper S