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TR2/3/3A back half to chassis questions

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I wish I could say I came up with the idea but the professional custom car guys have been doing it long before me but I am pretty picky about my work and I like this method to those that use sheetmetal screws. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with that method as well. I will have one spot that I will need to use a screw to pull the joint together to weld it because I can not get a clamp there to pull it together. I have learned that you have to be flexible in how you do things on these cars. Some things are easy and straight forward and others you have to think outside the box to solve a problem. Frank
 
cleco pliers.jpg
Steve, these are the cleco pliers that I use with the clecos.
distance tube and alignment bolt.jpg
alignment bolt in distance tube.jpg
This is the distance tube and an alignment bolt. The 3/8" bolt head and nut fit nicely inside the tubing and will be used for alignment with the 3/8" hole in the frame.
distance tube in place no closing panel.jpg
This shows the distance tube with the alignment bolt in place without the lower closing panel. This allows for using drill bits to get the distance from the upper closing panel. That way I know how far down on the lower closing panel to make the hole.
center piont mark for tubeing hole.jpg
The lower closing panel was put in place earlier and I used a 3/8" bolt with the end sharpened to a dull point then I dipped it in paint and used a flange nut against the rear of the frame to thread the bolt thru holding the nut against the frame so the bolt was at the correct angle and threaded it in till it contacted the panel and marked the center of the hole. once the panel was out I marked the centerline and confirmed that the holes have the panel centered on the frame.
rough punched hole.jpg
The hole is not a true round hole as the tube goes thru the panel at an angle. I used a punch to rough in the hole and went back with a rotary burr and brought it to the correct shape and size.
closing panel in place with daisance tube in place.jpg
This shows the panel back in place with the distance tube thru the panel. The centering bolt can not be seen but it is in place. The and of the tube is used confirm that the angle of the tube is correct to the frame. The tube can be spun on the centering bolt to confirm that the tube is not in a bind thru the holes. The driver side was done with the same process and all panels are in place. Now the tube can be marked at the angle of the closing panel and cut off. I am going to have to think about this before I do that as I may tack it in place where it is and take the back half of the car off and cut it so I am sure the tubes stay where I want them. This area has been much more difficult than I thought it would and certainly is taking longer. Frank
 
Looking great Frank. Very nice work.

Cheers,
Tush
 
Thank you Tush, your videos are a big help.
distance tubes.jpg

These are the distance tubes cut and labeled ready to be welded.
The distance tubes were centered up using the bolt and nut method, both sides were set up and checked before the distance tube was tacked at the lower closing panel and then tacked on the outside at the rear valance. That way the tube won't move when the welding is done.
remove epoxy before welding.jpg

I can't emphasize the importance of cleaning the area on both sides of a weld. This is the back side of where the distance tube is going to be welded from the outside but the epoxy on the inside will contaminate the weld if not removed.
passenger side distance tube welded.jpg

Not the prettiest weld but there was a big gap at the top that had to be filled.
passenger distance tube dressed weld.jpg

Now that looks a little better.
Distance tube insert spacer.jpg

This shows the original distance tube spacer. I am not sure if I am going to go this way or the new version that is one piece type of spacer.
IMG_1887.jpg

Driver side, A little more finishing work but it was getting late.
Driver side distance tube spacer.jpg

That gets the outside easy welding, tomorrow we move to the lower closing panel to weld the other end of the distance tube. This has taken a lot of time but I am happy with how it is turning out. Frank
 
Looking good Frank, my distance tubes were in reasonable condition so I reused them and kept the original through-bolt setup.

Graham
 
Very nice! I'm about to get back into welding on the stearman frame...I'll need to practice to get back up to speed.
 
I used a friends Miller 185 with the auto wire speed feature. I was welding a broken tube on my lawnmower. Set the machine to thickness of material to weld and it sets the wire speed. I could not have set it any better and it welded super easy. Can’t wait to see the progress. You may be in the air before I am on the road. Good luck, Frank
 
My Miller 185 is now going on 24 years old and still going strong...although she doesn't look so pretty anymore. That would be nice with the auto wire feed. When you weld a lot it becomes second nature, but during "breaks" you have to relearn all the feeds and speeds. I was excited when I finally bought the TIG...thought it was what all the aerospace was using. I guess it is...today anyway. The entire chrome moly steel Stearman frame was gas welded by Boeing! I learned welding making metal sculptures with oxyacetylene when was 10. I still feel more comfortable behind a torch, so I may be going backwards in technology for this project?!?
 
Nothing wrong with gas welding. I wish I would have had the opportunity to learn gas welding. I can do it but I am not good at it. Never was good at adjusting the torch, it was always a little too hot or not hot enough. I guess that is why I like the foot pedal on my TIG welder. If gas welding was good enough for Boeing I would do the repairs with gas welding. Frank
 
welding distance tubes.jpg

back half back off so the distance tube can be welded to the lower closing panel.
passenger distance tube.jpg

passenger distance tube welded. the original had the weld exposed so I am not going to grind and finish the weld.
driver distance tube.jpg

driver side distance tube welded to the lower closing panel.
distance tube welded in and on the car.jpg

The side closing panel removed to check weld quality and getting ready to prime the tube and weld area before closing it up for the last time.
back half on car and lined up.jpg

Back half back on the frame and lined up. I am amazed that after all the cutting and fitting, rebuilding the passenger back corner, welding, on and off multiple times that this time was so satisfying that it all lined up and all the mounting bolts lined up including the distance tubes. I have managed to remove the bolts that went thru the original distance tube spacers so I plan to go with Graham's advice and stay with the bolt thru set up and keep it as original as possible. This set up might be a little fiddly but you don't put it on and take it off that much. Frank
 
Just admiring your shed wall art Frank, don't know if there is much left of that right-hand floor panel you could reuse?

Graham
 
LOL, thank you Graham. I follow rule #1, never throw anything away. My shop is far from new and I love it that way. A new building was not in the budget and don’t regret making use of the old shed. I am very comfortable working on my old car in my old shed. Life is good! Frank
 
So nice Frank and John got TIG--- my life is over I cannot keep up-- good by or good buy cruel world. Anyways Frank I am curious when you fit the outer sill if those nice ones you got will curl back into the body at the rear quarter panel. Most the other aftermarket stuff does not and looks boxy, but you can fix stuff like that where I did a little but it still looks boxy and not curvy like an original tr3. Moreover, you know the bracket that fits on those tubs you made, they can be a really pain to fit correct. The wiggle room and fitting the bumper square to the body I have found difficult sometimes, so have a look. Again beautiful work, it gives me something to be challenged with by and all around.

steve
 
A TIG machine is a nice piece of equipment but like a lot of guys out there doing it with limited tools and doing awesome work. You have a great car, mine is just pieces to a car. Give yourself some credit. As for the outer sills, I have the quarter panels(dog leg) to make and that will have to match up with the sills. The outer sills were a mess so after research I decided to get the ones made in Australia by KAS-Kilmartin. These are made with the bow to them and should help guide me thru rebuilding the area. I spent a lot of time getting the bumperette mounting bracket holes vertically aligned so I hope this makes that part easier. Frank
 
KAS-Kilmartin make great parts. I got seat pans and the piece that goes on the top of the doors from them and am very pleased with the quality. I had heard that they were the only ones to do the outer sills with the curve. Wish I had found that out a bit sooner.
The Dog leg problem looks familiar.
The POs fix on my TR3A

David
20160726_113518.jpg
 
I'm liking the idea of fitting with the door skin off. I'm hoping it makes things easier as it all comes back together.
 
I am also hoping that is the right track. For now just want to make sure the door opening is not too small. I need to get a little farther along checking A post position as well as the front wings and how they look like they are fitting. I am taking this part slow as I want to make sure I get the tub right or I will be fighting it the rest of the way. Starting to see less rusty Swiss cheese. A lot of repaired ares starting to come together. I got my NOS passenger side latch, now the hard part finding another driver side NOS latch. I hope there is another one out there, just have to be patient. Frank
 
Yes the door area is challenging, but you are the man for the job. I found the difficulty in getting the fender gap, door, A &B posts, and bottom sill to be happy. Anyways back to the bumperett bracket which with your metal skill should not be a big deal--- is that when the bracket is torqued down they follow an imperfect path, but again you have it.

steve
 
I'm curious how the spring pressure is on the original latches. With the repros it is rather painful depressing the latch fully in with your thumb. Is the NOS latch easier? Just a note, my doors were OK to close when I finished the restoration with the down-sprung repro latches. I would occasionally have to slam them twice to get a latch. After 4 years, though, they close like a Jaguar. 2 fingers and no slam will do it. So they do break in a bit over time.
 
Steve, I plan to mount the bumperettes Monday so we will see how that works out.
John, I did not find the NOS latch to be hard to depress. It is firm but not hard. I will have a better idea once it is mounted on the door. Good to know that they loosen up. One thing that must work correctly is the doors. Nothing better than a door that closes smoothly. Frank
 
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