• Hi Guest!
    If you appreciate British Car Forum and our 25 years of supporting British car enthusiasts with technical and anicdotal information, collected from our thousands of great members, please support us with a low-cost subscription. You can become a supporting member for less than the dues of most car clubs.
    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

Awakening the Beastie...trying to!

Share this page

Well, I usually buy the cheap stuff instead of Gumout; maybe it's different? But I have used it as starting fluid many times, and it does work better than the can of "starting fluid" I have. In fact, when I resuscitated TS13571L after it's 30 year nap, I used carb cleaner to first demonstrate I wasn't getting any ignition (some kind of bug nest in the points) and then no fuel (it started and ran briefly on the carb cleaner). The lawnmower also started and ran on it, when the main carb jet was clogged.

Perhaps on the Subie, you're getting too much fuel and all the cranking is just to dry out the plugs? Doesn't take much to act as starting fluid; probably a lot more to actually clean the carb.
 
Maybe it is/was quantity, then. It did take quite a bit to clean the carb, after which -- unlike "normal mode" where the Subaru starts almost instantly -- it took a great deal of cranking. Could well be I simply "flooded" it with all that Gumout! :blush:
 
Monica,
I was convinced that it was going to be that the petrol had gone bad, until I read that you had no spark!
Does the TR7 have electronic ignition or points in the USA? If it has points then you will have to check that they are clean and adjusted correctly. You can also check for a spark there with the ignition switched on (using an insulated screw driver!).
When you fit your new HT leads check that the terminals on the distributor cap and coil are clean and corrosion-free.
As already suggested check that you have power going to the coil (possibly a white wire?).
I had terrible trouble with my TR3 last winter, which turned out to be a combination of corroded terminal on the coil, bad plugs and a worn distributor.
Good luck.
 
Andy and Randall, I have never found spray carb cleaner to burn very well either. While "new" starting fluid does seem different than it was a few years back, it still works for me. For the reasons that Andy mentioned, I have never even thought to use carb cleaner as starting fluid. It has always seemed to suppress ignition rather than help it.

As a footnote to the discussion on the effective use of carb cleaner, for years I have bought "store brand" carb cleaner in spray cans and "Gunk" brand carb cleaner in the gallon can for dipping. During the past year I have found that the store brand spray from Advance Auto will no longer touch fuel varnish AT ALL. It is more than worthless. I now buy only name brand spray carb cleaner. The Gunk dip cleaner I've bought for years also seems to have been de-tuned and takes much longer to work. I know a lot of people like Berryman's more than Gunk but even with my limited sense of smell I can't stand the smell of Berryman's dip cleaner.

Sorry Monica. Back on topic, do post more about the ignition type (points or electronic ignition) and I'm sure we'll be able to help you get the spark back!
 
Every spring when I start "Ruby", I have to remember to close the hood before cranking,seem's she get's a little too much air with the hood raised.
 
DanB said:
Was he thinking of brake cleaner or something else?
Click to expand...

Do you mean brake cleaner as starting fluid? I seriously doubt anyone meant that.

The dangers of burning brake cleaner have been discussed on the board before and in the article in the link below. Burning brake cleaner can produce phosgene gas which is something I will avoid for the rest of my automotive tinkering days.

https://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
 
Hi again!
Sorry for the delay, but I was out visiting my fave mouse in SoCal. Since I was in the neighborhood (give or take 1.5 hours) we stayed a few days in San Diego/Del Mar. :devilgrin: "Wow, DH! What a coincidence-I had NO idea Triumphest would be here in October! And hosted by the very Hotel we are in! Imagine that!" Psst, it is a lovely place and I hope to meet some of you there.
Back to the matter at hand.....
Before I forget to mention it, my Spidey is an electronic ignition and seems to have all Lucas components (cue the ominous dread and fear music here) :eeek:
Since my last post:
Per Randall's suggestion I removed the high tension coil wire from the distributor and checked for spark. End result: No spark.
Did the Ballast wire test as prescribed by Clay (thanks for holding my hand, Clay. Your timing was impeccable!) End result: Did not start.
Decided to do Randall's easy test of removing the distributor cap and cranking the engine to see if the little rotor arm spins. End result: Rotor spins freely and quickly...AND I found this. https://s578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226...04-05215354.flv
It makes sense--to me, at least-- that one reason (hopefully <span style="font-weight: bold">the</span> reason) I may not have spark is because of this severed connection, right? So, Gentlemen, do I purchase the entire distributor? Does it come with those wires included ready to be clicked into place with the red and blue wires' connector? Or is the connector with the thin black wires available on its own? If so, where? I didn't see it in the Moss, Vicky B, or TRF catalogs. Thanks bunches for your help. I know I am waaaay in over my head :b, but I am stubborn and determined. Thanks for your help and patience. --Monica
 
dklawson said:
Burning brake cleaner can produce phosgene gas
Click to expand...
Well, just like carb cleaner, brake cleaners are not all created equal. The "non chlorinated" ones (which are about all I can find these days in CA) cannot generate phosgene, since phosgene contains chlorine. In fact, the can sitting on my bench doesn't have anything more dangerous than acetone in it.

But it is carb cleaner that I used to fire up TS13571L and the lawnmower, etc.
 
I'm afraid I know very little about the Lucas electronic systems. But I think it's clear that those cut wires are at least part of the problem if not all of it.

Personally, being the perverse person that I am, I would probably try to splice them and see if I could make it run. That will probably mean partially disassembling the distributor, and cutting apart the rubber boot that goes through the side. Splice the wires with solder and heat shrink tubing, plus maybe an extra layer of heat shrink over both wires, and just let the splice lay in the hole through the dizzy. If it works, you can plug up the hole later with silicone RTV or something.

Replacement components (or complete distributors) for the Lucas electronics don't seem to be readily available. However, Pertronix seems to offer a conversion kit that might work. You might call TRF and see if they think P/N PTR107 might fit your car.

Another alternative would be a point type distributor from an earlier car (or an aftermarket replacement, like the Mallory).
 
Monica,

Great video to demo what you found! First time I've seen someone put their problem on screen like that. Very Nice Job!

And I think Randall has given you the best solution. I doubt you'll find that
wire unit very easily and soldering up a fix is the way to go.
 
Monica - can you clean the wires and let us know which ones/colors where cut?

You have a bunch of choices as far as replacement goes, replacements are freely available.

You might want to call Woody at;

https://www.thewedgeshopstore.com/

And ask him what he'd do - he's the man on these cars, and a super nice guy too boot (no pun intended).

Jeff at Advanced Distributor might also be worth a call, I'm sure he's seen worse.
 
That looks to me like an optical pickup. My guess is that if you would splice the wires in where you think they came out, you will get spark. What is the worst that could happen? It doesn't work already, and you are thinking about a new dizzy, so why not try it.

Dan B.
 
Monica, great and very useful video. What a nice way of showing what's going on.

I did some Googling and think it's safe to say that you have a very late 45DM4 distributor with a remote amplifier (the box the wires started at). I have a link for you to read over.
https://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/ignitiontext.htm
Yes, it's MGB stuff but that's not important. What is important is the discussion about 1/3 the way down the page where they talk about your distributor (which was used on a number of different cars).

Based on the text in that link I think Randall's idea of cutting open the molded distributor boot with the wires and splicing them back together would be my first choice. You really don't have much to lose. If it works, great. If not, you should continue reading the link and consider one of the aftermarket ignition kits like Pertronix to replace your Lucas parts.

On a U.K. board I frequent they have had a lot of success running the "Britparts" kit mentioned on the page in the link above (The Landrover conversion kit). However, with any of these complete conversions you will need a new coil as well as the ignition module. Again, I like Randall's idea of splicing the broken wires first.
 
Monica, I thought the following words of encouragement might be nice. The following text was copied from a post on the NASS (Spitfire) Yahoo Group.

<span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-style: italic">I've had great luck with a Lucas 45DM "CEI" distributor from very late model BL cars. This is the kind that was replaced under warranty for the problematic EID dizzies and is fully electronic with a remote black box housing a very reliable GM ignition module. I picked up one from an MGB for $25, including the box. You can have Jeff @ Advanced "Schlemmerize" it and set it up specifically for your car cheaper than other options and it is IMHO more reliable than a Pertronix.
Lee</span></span>

That 45DM CEI ignition he's talking about is what appears to be in your car. The guy he's talking about is Jeff who runs Advanced Distributors. Jeff should be able to offer very good guidance on your car's ignition system. His web site is linked below.
https://www.advanceddistributors.com/
 
Just send it to Jeff already - chances are it needs a rebuild anyway and he'll get it sorted for you at a very fair price. Pulling the distributor and sending it off to Jeff is job #1 on all the project cars that I've taken in, life is too short to be dealing with iffy spark ;-)
 
dklawson said:
Based on the text in that link I think Randall's idea of cutting open the molded distributor boot with the wires and splicing them back together would be my first choice. You really don't have much to lose. If it works, great. If not, you should continue reading the link and consider one of the aftermarket ignition kits like Pertronix to replace your Lucas parts.
Click to expand...
HI, Guys!
Glad you were okay with the video...had to use it as I don't know the names for most of the components! :blush: haha
I agree, I don't have much to lose, so I will be giving this a go. I have purchased the items to solder these wires and watched countless videos of "how to solder". Even gave it a few trial runs for practice and was succesful at it 2 out of 3 times. Sssh, don't tell DH I used his old speaker wires :shocked: as my guinea pig! It's okay, they still work! Always exciting to try something new. Tomorrow is the day I go for it on the Beastie! Gosh, it would be great if by the grace of God this miraculously makes Beastie run. I am optimistic, but not delusional. LOL!
Skip, both wires that are snapped are black. If this doesn't work, I will be sending it off to the pros.
Thank you all for the encouragement, links, and patience. I'll let you know how it turns out! Now...it's time for a drive in Spidey!
grin.gif
 
Good Luck!
 
Saturday was the day I tried my hand at soldering the 2 snapped wires that go into the dizzy. One of my Subhubs, Dan, was there to supervise and assist. So I hafta tell you...my soldering project went well! Kinda sorta. There were no explosions nor 3rd degree burns. Hahaha. Actually, I kicked butt on the soldering and heat shrinky things. What took the longest was trying to carefully remove and salvage the little plug that fits the wires in the hole in the side of the dizzy so that I could reuse it to seal the side. Lots of little scrapes and a few skinned knuckles but well worth the experience of doing it myself! Ta-da! It looks great! My hands? That's another story-- should probably buy some gloves! :yesnod:
So I go to test for spark and Dan, says, "I see spark in the plug AND in the chewed up wire that you labeled #3. Congrats!" I was soo excited and had him trade places with me so that I could see it for myself. He turned the key. I didn't look for the spark in the plug, but I did see it where the plug wire was cracked very badly (it wasn't bluish, rather a whitish orange color). After a little celebration (think touchdown dance :banana:smile: I grabbed my little FLIP to record this momentous event. Dan turned the key and NOTHING! Several times--nothing. Ugh. Whipped out my voltmeter that I just purchased earlier and if I was testing correctly, it seems that I have 12V going in the coil, but zilch coming out. What are the chances of that?! 2 good sparks and then complete failure? I dunno, I guess I can get the coil checked at the corner autostore to be sure. Since we did see spark, it would seem that my soldering was okay, right? My thought is to check coil. If needed, replace it and try again. If it doesn't work, blame the amplifier? Yes, patience and one step at a time-Aaaagh! So all in all, not the outcome I had hoped for,but I feel like there was foward progress even if short-lived.I whole heartedly enjoyed the process. It is always cool to try new things. Let me know what you think, please! --Monica
 
Back
Top