Amelia Island Auction 100M Results

[HEALEYJAG]

Two 100-M's Facory went through the auction recently

$165,000 and $82,500

 

[Editor_Reid]

$165,000 and $82,500

That's quite a spread, quite a price range, and the average is most impressive. I guess it's time to raise the agreed value of mine with my insurance company.

We'll also now need to redouble our efforts to guard against unscrupulous people "making" more factory M's. Bill Meade's "Worldwide 100M 'Le Mans" Registry" will take on even more importance.

 

[judow]

:shocked: Agatha is worth how much???

I'll take the bottom number and be quite happy. Anything over $50,000 is profit. Perhaps I need to be increasing her insurance as well.

 

[TomFromStLouis]

I've never seen a big Healey go for more than $165,000. Is that a record?

 

[GregW]

100S' do, I recall something like $245K.

 

[Editor_Reid]

I've never seen a big Healey go for more than $165,000. Is that a record?

A factory M sold for $231,000 at an auction in Texas last April. That's the record for a regular production Healey.

A non-works 100S sold for $472,000 a few months ago.

 

[Dave Russell]

Even the NADA "book" prices are creeping up.
1956 BN2 = 45,550
1956 100M = 60,950
1955 100M = 63,125
1954 BN1 = 38,750

My insurance co. recently accepted a bit over the NADA top price, agreed value, with pictures & itemized receipts. No reappraisal.
D

 

[zblu]

Dave,
Do they even include us '53 owners, especially in the first thousand built as a rarity factor?

 

[Dave Russell]

The prices that I quoted are "High Retail" as explained below.

1953 100-4 is listed at $38,750. Same as the 1954.
https://www.nadaguides.com/Values/ValueCa...32&ColorId=
------------------------------
Quote NADA:
"High Retail Value --
This vehicle would be in excellent condition overall. It could be a completely restored or an extremely well maintained original vehicle showing very minimal wear. The exterior paint, trim, and mechanics are not in need of reconditioning. The interior would be in excellent condition. Note: This value does not represent a "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle *.

* "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle is not driven. It would generally be in a museum or transported in an enclosed trailer to concourse judging and car shows. This type of car would be stored in a climate-regulated facility.
------------------------------

The generally quoted (Clausager) production numbers by model year were:
1952-1953 BN1 - 94
1953-1954 BN1 - 4424
1954-1955 BN1 - 5348
1955-1956 BN2 - 4748

From a slightly different source (Wheatley):
By model;
BN1 - 10030
BN2 - 4604 including 640 officially identified 100M's.

The joke goes something like "of the original 640 100M's built, only around 5000 still exist today".
D

 

[zblu]

Must be all those privateers from yesteryear for there to be that many M's/LM's!

 

[Dave Russell]

Technically, it's only proper to call the original 640 factory identified cars as 100M's. The many more converted cars should be called LeMans or LeMans converted. The price difference is obvious & it's easy for the unwary to get "taken".

Many cars were converted after the fact & all of the needed parts are still available. Only the factory record is reliable to identify a true 100M. And even then, the various identifying numbers on the parts must match the record. Even then, they can still be counterfeited.

As Reid said, the registry becomes very important.
D

 

[judow]

"As Reid said, the registry becomes very important."



I learned a lot about Agatha by just registering my 100-M.

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

What is the difference between a factory LeMans and a standard 100 that hs been fully converted except for the place the work was done?

 

[Dave Richards]

What is the difference between a factory LeMans and a standard 100 that hs been fully converted except for the place the work was done?

It's probably subjective for most of us, but people are usually inclined to pay more for anything with history, or originality, if for nothing more than personal satisfaction. And, after all, most of us didn't get into this to make money, but to have a piece of history that actually gives us some daily pleasure.

 

[Dave Russell]

What is the difference between a factory LeMans and a standard 100 that hs been fully converted except for the place the work was done?

About $15,000 to $20,000, sometimes much more. There's just something about having a genuine & somewhat rare factory certified original "special" that brings the price up. Lots of cars are that way.

Big time auctions acentuate the difference.
D

 

[Editor_Reid]

What is the difference between a factory Le Mans and a standard 100 that hs been fully converted except for the place the work was done?

The difference is provenance.

They didn't use the word "clone" for cars back in the 1950s, but if you take a standard 100 and fit all of the "M pieces," you have what is now called a clone. It's not "a real one." It wasn't made, new, as a 100M, and it wasn't sold as a 100M model.

You can make a helluva 427 Cobra today for under $100,000. If you have one that was made by the factory in the 1960s, bidding starts at, what, $1,000,000 and up? You can shrug and say that they are the very same thing, but the market - and the provenance of the car - will disagree with you.

Clones are often wonderful cars and I would not turn up my nose at one, especially considering the cost savings, but it will never be a real one, and that means a lot to a lot of people. The way the market is going, a reasonable rule of thumb might be that a 100M is worth twice (100 percent more) what a standard car is worth, and worth 50 percent more than a standard car with the Le Mans kit.

 

[Dave Russell]

Actually the 100M's were not strictly factory built. The bodies were built by Jensen with the only difference being the louvered bonnets. These cars were to be the official 640 designated "M" cars.

After leaving the factory assembly line, the designated "M" cars with the standard parts & louvered bonnet were delivered to Donald Healey's shop for after assembly line addition/modification of the unique parts. The only special identification on these cars as they left the factory was the "louvered bonnet". Customized before delivery if you will. Not really factory built as 100M's in the strictest sense of the word.

I believe that DMH also did the conversions, as requested by owners, on cars that were not factory designated as 100M's. At the time, the "M's" were not considered particularly unique & the conversion kits were available to dealers & or anyone else who wished to convert their standard car to 100M specifications. Thereafter called LeMans conversions.

All rather vague but that's how it worked. The 640 cars that the factory specified & documented to be converted are now worth the "big bucks".
D

 

[Sopp]

OK, my BN1 was "supposedly" sent back to the "factory" for M conversion before being shipped to the USA. It has all the M stuff, but there is NO bend in the "X" radiator support to signify the cam being changed with the engine in the car. Engine was apparrently removed to be converted. It is definately NOT one of the 640.

"IF" this is true, where does it fall as far as value? It will be a #1 when finnished.

Next, can anyone explain to me why British Heritage has no record what-so-ever of the existance of BN1-220091 ??????

Am I wasting my time and my life savings on a car that has no provenance and only "hear-say" history?

I love British cars.
I love restoring British cars.
I can't afford to be throwing "good-money-after-bad".
Where do I go from here?

Sopp

 

[Dave Russell]

Unless you have solid written documentation from the factory or DMH that it was done as such, there is no proof.

There likely were BN1's that were converted by DMH but they are not part of the official 640 BN2M cars. Note - None of the "official" M cars were BN1's. As I said above, even the "factory converted" M cars were actually sent to DMH for the conversion after they were built. The factory only had Jensen provide & install the louvered bonnet before the factory assembled the cars as otherwise standard models.

The only for sure documentation of an M was a note on the build cards that showed a louvered bonnet. This will usually show on a BMIHT certificate as "Louvered Bonnet".

IMO, the whole subject is a "ball of snakes".

Maybe Reid can shed some more light on it? As he said earlier, a standard car might be priced at x value. An after the fact fully converted car might be priced at 1.5 x. An original documented one of 640 might be priced at 2 x.

I don't know why the BMIHT has no record of your car number. C220091 would fall in the range between Oct. 1954 & Nov. 1954. It could be a record screw up or someone has changed the number for who knows what reason.

I don't know if you are wasting your time. If you are happy with a nice after the fact converted car there is nothing wrong. If you are intent on having a "one of 640" 100M's, it isn't possible.

You could try getting BMIHT to cross match the engine number to a body number. It might give a clue.
D

 

[Editor_Reid]

OK, my BN1 was "supposedly" sent back to the "factory" for M conversion before being shipped to the USA. It has all the M stuff, but there is NO bend in the "X" radiator support to signify the cam being changed with the engine in the car. Engine was apparrently removed to be converted. It is definately NOT one of the 640.

Well, if it's not one of the 640, its not a 100M.

It is very possible that the Le Mans Engine Modification Kit was installed at the Donald Healey Motor Company. That was part of their business as a dealer in addition to being a "factory."

"IF" this is true, where does it fall as far as value? It will be a #1 when finnished.

It is "interesting," but only IF you have documentation. That's about it. With no documentation, it wouldn't really be worth any more than a car that was converted last week. It would fall between a standard car and a 100M in value.

Next, can anyone explain to me why British Heritage has no record what-so-ever of the existance of BN1-220091 ??????

What the BMIHT has is a microfilm of the original Job Production Cards. The record is very good, but imperfect. A few of those cards went missing for whatever reason, and therefore they do not show up on the microfilm. It "doesn't help" the value of the car that there is no factory record. Sorry.

Am I wasting my time and my life savings on a car that has no provenance and only "hear-say" history?

That depends. If you are restoring it for yourself, you have only one person to please and so unless you don't like the car, all is well. However, if you are restoring it for resale/profit, you picked one that is "less than optimum" for the purpose.

I love British cars.
I love restoring British cars.
I can't afford to be throwing "good-money-after-bad".
Where do I go from here?

That depends on what you want to do with the car and how far along you are.