Aluminum radiator

[Healeysince59]

The heat transfer coefficient (k) for aluminum (aluminium) is 237 W/m/°C. The heat transfer coefficient for copper is 398 W/m/°C. The copper core radiator will dissipate heat better than a similar aluminum radiator.

 

[drambuie]

Steve, I was responding to the physics aspect! Note i did not include or compare copper with aluminum when i was talking about the machining process when using coolents. I think the racers use the aluminum because of weight savings more then anything.... As far as pratical use on the street! It does its job very well!

 

[Michael Oritt]

I am going to resurrect and old thread since I now have my radiator out.
If anyone has installed a Wizard radiator in the last few years I would appreciate learning of their experience.

 

[steveg]

Michael - IIRC a while ago Dougie showed his aluminum radiator here - sourced from GB - in which the top tank looked stock.

I have a friend with a Wizard on his Healey. A great radiator but IMO the top tank looks out of place on a Healey.

 

[Michael Oritt]

Steve--

By stock do you mean black in color or simply the correct shape?
I do not disagree with you that AL radiators look is a bit inconsistent with that of a Healey's engine compartment.

 

[steveg]

IIRC it was the correct shape. Can't remember if it was black. Maybe Dougie will jump in.

 

[dougie]

Hey Guys -

Yes, I have AH Spares aluminum radiator on my '57 BN4 vintage race,https://www.ahspares.co.uk/austin-h...ng-cht101-to-cht147/radiator-aluminium-1.aspx The key with me going with this item besides weight reduction was it's authentic original look. I took it to "next level" and massage the welding bead across the front and sides in addition to mounting the stock manufacturing label and date tag, finishing it off with a black hi-performance urethane finish. I later made a custom rear mounted electric fan shroud for maximum cooling during summer races.

80 plus degrees and misty rain at the start of the SVRA Portland Historics last weekend, no over heating......

 

[Keoke]

I am going to resurrect and old thread since I now have my radiator out.
If anyone has installed a Wizard radiator in the last few years I would appreciate learning of their experience.

If yu want weight reduction go with the Aluminum one , if you want optimum cooling go with a Copper one.

 

[Deleted member 21878]

i have read a few articles where the alum rads can get as good or better cooling because of the way they can design them?? got the impression it had to do with limitations to the copper... but i could be wrong. i was more interested in the look and not the weight. just me. So i went with my old tanks and a new modern core.

Took two days for the local guy to get it done. cost me $525 i believe. it has worked very well. i get the same type of numbers as stated above with the alum radiator. usually 90 to 100 degrees above ambient temp. the biggest difference now is that if i stop at lights and the temp goes up... it goes back down as soon as i get moving again. And will go all the way back down to the driving temp before i stopped.

i have done some things to try and stop air recirculating at idle. but i am beginning to believe it is more about moving coolant. if i am sitting at a light and the car temp goes up, i can speed the idle up to about 1200 rpm and the temp drops right back down. as long as i sit there holding the idle up, the temp stays down. have wondered what a smaller pulley would do for the cooling....

 

[vette]

If yu want weight reduction go with the Aluminum one , if you want optimum cooling go with a Copper one.

I agree completely. The original two advantages for aluminum radiators was cost and weight reduction compared to copper. When it comes to competition use the advantages are obvious. Like we find in so many of our marketing environments, a small advantage in one realm is promulgated into a much larger marketing advantage in all realms.
Two disadvantages to aluminum are that you really need to keep your coolant in top shape, ie: change it often. The second disadvantage is that when it does start to leak, it usually can't be fixed. Just get another radiator. There goes your cost advantage.
I have a 4-core rebuild to my original healey radiator and it stays between 170* and 180* all day long. I also have a Texas Cooler fan. I have a 5 core rebuild to my original copper radiator in my '70 Vette and it stays around 180 all day long with a very hot rodded engine. Funny thing about rebuilding copper, the same radiator shop cleaned and flushed & repaired my original Vette radiator over 30 years ago. When he did it he said to me " don't expect this to last very long because the copper is very thin." When I took it too him to recore because I was building a new engine about 2 years ago I mentioned to him that over 30 years ago he told me the copper wouldn't last. I had been driving it for 30 years and it lasted.

 

[John Turney]

I got into this discussion at Rendezvous 2019 with Steve Day and did a bit of research. The reason the Wizard radiator is so much better than the stock copper radiator is that the Wizard core is much thicker that stock. I have a 3-row recored copper radiator. The copper tubes are nominally 1/2". The Wizard has two 1" rows, giving nominally 33% more surface area and about 40% more thickness. Cooling capacity is directly related to surface area.

The advantage with copper has always been that it could be repaired by any radiator shop. In looking last year, all my local radiator shops are gone. I could still find one about an hour away in non-commute traffic (2 hours in commute traffic, but that's another story). Also, a Wizard radiator is ~$500. A copper one is ~$1,000.

 

[Keoke]

No John :
The real advantage of copper is as has been stated below:

The heat transfer coefficient (k) for aluminum (aluminum) is 237
W/m/°C. The heat transfer coefficient for copper is 398
W/m/°C. The copper core radiator will dissipate heat better than a similar aluminum radiator.

The forum member who reported this lives where temperatures can get up to 117 Degrees during the day.​

 

[John Turney]

No John :
The real advantage of copper is as has been stated below:

The heat transfer coefficient (k) for aluminum (aluminium) is 237
W/m/°C. The heat transfer coefficient for copper is 398
W/m/°C. The copper core radiator will dissipate heat better than a similar aluminum radiato.

The forum member who reported this lives where temperatures can get up to 117 Degrees during the day.​

While that's true, the tubes are brass because copper isn't strong enough. Only the fins are copper. The heat transfer coefficient for brass is less than that of aluminum. Further, the copper fins are soldered to the brass tubes. Solder is a poor conductor. Either material works just fine in a properly designed radiator. Aluminum is cheaper and weighs less, which is why manufacturers have gone to aluminum.

You may be interested in this: http://www.coolcraft.com/Radiator-Core-Styles#Alum

 

[healeyblue]

Just thinking here : but if copper is that much better then wouldn't todays modern-no-cost-is-an-option super or hyper cars use them instead of the aluminum radiators that they all use. McLaren actually used real gold foil for heat disipation in the engine bay, yet neglected to use a copper core radiator. Silly engineers.

 

[CaptRandy]

Michael, you asked about Wizard Aluminum. I ordered on and am very happy with it. Temp running went down from 195 to 175 with outdoor temps 75. In traffic at a light the temp does rise to 190 but goes down right away to 175. At a light the temp would go up to about 220-230 and take about 3 minutes to start to drop but never go below 195. The start and stopping was my main concern as 220-230 is at the point a 7 lb cap may start to boil over.
The one problem I ran into was the capture nuts for mounting. When they were installed somehow they mixed both ase and metric nuts so I was really having a problem installing as bolts would fit and then when I used that bolt it would not fit. Turned out 2 were metric 4 were ASE. Had to finally mark each bolt as to where it went. I did have to trim the bottom hose fitting as it was too long to fit over the cross member.
I have had it for 2 years and it still works fine.

 

[Keoke]

McLaren actually used real gold foil for heat dissipation in the engine bay, yet neglected to use a copper core radiator. Silly Engineers.

No they weren't silly, Gold does not corrode as well as being highly conductive U see :at
​

 

[Michael Oritt]

Seeing my radiator out of the car while switching out the water pump drove me to explore whether something off-the-shelf--such as a new AL radiator--held promise of significantly improved cooling system performance. But while no one has any criticism of their AL unit no reports seem to offer much better temperatures than I experience with my present copper/brass rad, to which I added a core with one more row and staggered tubes a number of years back, and hot weather temp is generally at or below 190. If I run at sustained 70 MPH or more I will see 200 but that goes away almost instantly when I get off the loud pedal.

I tried to find a traditional radiator shop that hot-tanks radiators but all that is available are general service shops or chains that offer an in-car flush and pressure test. So before I button everything up I would like to flush the radiator to remove any scale, though the water that came out of both the engine and radiator looked very clean and free of rust, etc. I have used vinegar or muriatic acid and water soaks in the past but wonder if anyone has had good experience with any other method or one of the many off-the-shelf products sold.

 

[RAC68]

Hi All,

Although I prefer the look of the original tank and see the Wizard Aluminum tank as too massive, I believe, as others, its design is what makes it more efficient then our original or re-cored radiators. I have also found the design of the Healey's porous radiator bulkhead, air disturbing opening between the radiator and crossmember, and lack of a fan shroud to also defeat proper cooling on a hot day in traffic. As a result of these Healey design deficits, many of us have resorted to adding bigger radiators, more agressive fans and a plethora of other modifications to help improve engine and rider cooling.

Recently, I have extended a number of panels from radiator to grill in an attempt to diminish radiator recirculation at a stop light. I also have my bilge-blower equipped Cold Air Duct intersect with these panels in an attempt to draw outside air instead of hot recirculating air when waiting for the light (or traffic). Although I have had some moderate success in my efforts, it is far from the benefits gained if the Healey was designed today.

I just returned from an initial test of my implemented of John's fan shroud and found it a definite contributor to reducing running temperature. Other then a lower running temperature (improving the efficiency of my Texas Cooler), John design can be installed and removed through the engine compartment and eliminates the need for removal of any other engine compartment component.

As far as my initial test results, although NJ's ambient temperature has dropped from the mid to high 90s F to 79F this morning, my Healey ran at a constant 170F (160F sleeved thermostat) with a 45-minute idle raising engine temperature to 180-185 F. Will engine temperatures increase when the ambient temperature raises back to the mid 90s, I expect so. How much my running temperature will raise will be my next data point as my pre-implementation running road temperature on a 90s ambient was around 195F @ 45-MPH and around 200F at a traffic light.

Ray(64BJ8P1)

 

[steveg]

I used this one. You put it in your empty system, fill it up with water and drive for a few days. My engine cooling system, as observed through the thermostat housing, was whistle-clean.

 

[HealeyRick]

I have a Wizard in my Nasty Boy with Ford V8 power and have been very happy with it. The motor runs at a steady 195 degrees with a puller electric fan which is fine as the 5.0l generally runs at 205 in modern fuel injected applications. What I did, and would recommend, is have Wizard build a custom shroud when building your radiator. When doing your cooling research you'll find that adding a shroud is one of the best things you can do for cooling efficiency. Wizard will work to your dimensions, whether you have a mechanical or electric fan. Their workmanship and customer service are top notch.