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I have a great story to share. Well, certainly an interesting tale ….
I have this Bugeye nicknamed "Greeny" (for obvious reasons) that I purchased on eBay in November 2013 from a guy in Florida who told me at the time that he had a clear title for the car. After the car arrived from Florida with no title or Bill of Sale, the stories started to flow. Title was at first held up in probate hearing (unfortunately the previous owner had passed away), potentially making the sale of the car illegal. Then the title was on its way, his business partner was going to South Carolina to pick it up. Then the title was “lost” by previous owner, the deceased. Anyway, this shady character never supplied the title and the car had no VIN, BAE or engine number tags, so the title could not be traced. The only tag on the car was the Factory Commission or order number which is not a number recorded by BMC and is not traceable through Heritage Motor Company, so really of no use in Identifying the car. Sounds a bit suspicious right, like a stolen car stripped of all ID numbers ?
I filed a complaint with eBay and of course was quickly shunted to eBay Auction Insurance Agency. After 12 months of phone calls between them and the seller, without any real progress, they put me in contact with a very diligent and helpful guy at Florida DMV in Ft.Myers to investigate the seller and the dubious dealership name listed as 76 Group Motors. The seller had by accident – it was in the driver’s door pocket - sent me the previous Bill of Sale from when he purchased the car, so I had the name and address of the previous owner. The Bill of Sale listed the dealer as 76 Group Motors, which were apparently linked to Mid City Motors dealership in Ft.Myers. The seller then claimed he sold it as an individual, so DMV passed it over to Florida Highway Patrol for criminal investigation, since it is apparently illegal to sell a car in Florida without a title.
That was maybe 3 months ago, so I thought it was a dead end. So, following Illinois Secretary of State guidelines I purchased a Surety Bond and submitted it with a notarized Statement of Purchase to DMV in Illinois to obtain a title, using the AN530252 number listed on the previous Bill of Sale to identify the car. Illinois DMV sent the application back saying that I needed a Title to transfer or, a Law Enforcement Officer inspection to confirm the VIN # was correct and an appraisal by an Officer of a Car Club or a Licensed Dealer. So, no VIN tag, no chance for an Illinois title. What a hassle !
So, my only choice to get a title appeared to be to find a set of tags with a title, essentially buy another Bugeye body in need of restoration. How often does it happen, that when you really need a part or in this case, a bugeye body or a set of tags with title, that it appears on eBay ? Seems to happen to me frequently. Believe or not, within a week of receiving the letter from Jesse White, Secretary of State (Illinois DMV) a complete set of tags from a Bugeye appeared on eBay, with a title available as well. Purchased the tags & title, back in business.
Then about a week later, I get this call out of the blue from a Florida Highway Patrol Trooper in the Criminal and Fraud Investigation Unit in Ft.Myers, FL. The FHP Trooper that was assigned the case, by good fortune, has raced Healey's and other English sportscars, a real enthusiast. He also proved to be a really good detective ! In the space of a week, he had virtually solved the case and identified three possible VIN numbers for the car.
With the information I had gathered on previous owner (now deceased), he contacted the widow and she confirmed he had owned three Bugeyes when he lived in both NC and SC. She provided his full name and addresses for both states. We used the only tag on the vehicle - you know that useless non traceable number, the BMC factory order or commission # AN5 30252 - from the plate in the driver's door pocket to approximate build date as late 1959 or early 1960. The Trooper then requested an archive search in both NC and SC for 1959 and 1960 Bugeyes owned by the deceased.
When the respective DMVs conducted the archive searches for VINs matching his addresses, they came up with 3 VINs. One of these VINs was on a registered car titled in South Carolina. Of the other two, one had been titled in NC (likely my car) and the other had no record of being titled (hopefully the race car mentioned below).
After his death, these two cars were sold by the widow to the guy in Florida, who then sold them on eBay - a white race car with blue stripe that was sold to a guy in Vancouver (the Trooper had his name and has reached out to him also to see if that car had a VIN or BAE tag attached) and the Green car with wire wheels which I bought. Greeny also had an old NC rego windscreen sticker which indicated it had been registered in NC and may match a previous NC title on the car. NC DMV were supposed to search the archives for previous owners and get back to the Trooper.
I also informed the Trooper that the original color was Antique White, visible under the car, and red interior trim of which there are remnants remaining in the car. I suggested the only way to confirm the colors as a match to the VIN, and to obtain the BAE and engine numbers was to inquire with Heritage Motor Center in the UK for the car details. The Trooper sent on the following Monday a "criminal investigation" inquiry to HMC and overnight had a reply ! Turns out that both cars with the VINs we had were originally white with red trim, so no joy there, except that they were able to provide BAE and Engine numbers for both VINs at no charge.
So, the next information received was that the Vancouver owner came back and confirmed he had a 3rd different VIN to the two "possible" VINs, which again did not help our case.
Then, a breakthrough !
NC DMV sent the Trooper the microfiche of title records for the suspected VIN number dating back to 1975. The Trooper then contacted the next in line previous owner to the deceased – apparently the only surviving previous owner - to see if he could identify the car as his previous Bugeye. He had apparently sold the car in 1998 to the deceased owner. After email contact, I sent him a link to photos of Greeny and he was not only able to identify the car, but told us that he had the car painted green over the previous blue, which was visible under the bonnet and had painted the red seat covers black. He also identified the Union Jack bonnet stickers, factory wood rim steering wheel, early wire wheels with drum brake setup, the unusual rear tire mount bracket and was able to send photos of the car painted blue and then freshly painted green.
So, now I have a confirmed VIN, BAE and Engine number and should be able to get an Illinois title, with a law enforcement inspection and a value appraisal from a licensed dealer or car club officer. Only took 18 months and a very diligent Trooper to solve the case.
Here are the “identifying” early pics of the car and a current day pic. When I get the title, the car will be for sale !
Cheers
Lew
I have this Bugeye nicknamed "Greeny" (for obvious reasons) that I purchased on eBay in November 2013 from a guy in Florida who told me at the time that he had a clear title for the car. After the car arrived from Florida with no title or Bill of Sale, the stories started to flow. Title was at first held up in probate hearing (unfortunately the previous owner had passed away), potentially making the sale of the car illegal. Then the title was on its way, his business partner was going to South Carolina to pick it up. Then the title was “lost” by previous owner, the deceased. Anyway, this shady character never supplied the title and the car had no VIN, BAE or engine number tags, so the title could not be traced. The only tag on the car was the Factory Commission or order number which is not a number recorded by BMC and is not traceable through Heritage Motor Company, so really of no use in Identifying the car. Sounds a bit suspicious right, like a stolen car stripped of all ID numbers ?
I filed a complaint with eBay and of course was quickly shunted to eBay Auction Insurance Agency. After 12 months of phone calls between them and the seller, without any real progress, they put me in contact with a very diligent and helpful guy at Florida DMV in Ft.Myers to investigate the seller and the dubious dealership name listed as 76 Group Motors. The seller had by accident – it was in the driver’s door pocket - sent me the previous Bill of Sale from when he purchased the car, so I had the name and address of the previous owner. The Bill of Sale listed the dealer as 76 Group Motors, which were apparently linked to Mid City Motors dealership in Ft.Myers. The seller then claimed he sold it as an individual, so DMV passed it over to Florida Highway Patrol for criminal investigation, since it is apparently illegal to sell a car in Florida without a title.
That was maybe 3 months ago, so I thought it was a dead end. So, following Illinois Secretary of State guidelines I purchased a Surety Bond and submitted it with a notarized Statement of Purchase to DMV in Illinois to obtain a title, using the AN530252 number listed on the previous Bill of Sale to identify the car. Illinois DMV sent the application back saying that I needed a Title to transfer or, a Law Enforcement Officer inspection to confirm the VIN # was correct and an appraisal by an Officer of a Car Club or a Licensed Dealer. So, no VIN tag, no chance for an Illinois title. What a hassle !
So, my only choice to get a title appeared to be to find a set of tags with a title, essentially buy another Bugeye body in need of restoration. How often does it happen, that when you really need a part or in this case, a bugeye body or a set of tags with title, that it appears on eBay ? Seems to happen to me frequently. Believe or not, within a week of receiving the letter from Jesse White, Secretary of State (Illinois DMV) a complete set of tags from a Bugeye appeared on eBay, with a title available as well. Purchased the tags & title, back in business.
Then about a week later, I get this call out of the blue from a Florida Highway Patrol Trooper in the Criminal and Fraud Investigation Unit in Ft.Myers, FL. The FHP Trooper that was assigned the case, by good fortune, has raced Healey's and other English sportscars, a real enthusiast. He also proved to be a really good detective ! In the space of a week, he had virtually solved the case and identified three possible VIN numbers for the car.
With the information I had gathered on previous owner (now deceased), he contacted the widow and she confirmed he had owned three Bugeyes when he lived in both NC and SC. She provided his full name and addresses for both states. We used the only tag on the vehicle - you know that useless non traceable number, the BMC factory order or commission # AN5 30252 - from the plate in the driver's door pocket to approximate build date as late 1959 or early 1960. The Trooper then requested an archive search in both NC and SC for 1959 and 1960 Bugeyes owned by the deceased.
When the respective DMVs conducted the archive searches for VINs matching his addresses, they came up with 3 VINs. One of these VINs was on a registered car titled in South Carolina. Of the other two, one had been titled in NC (likely my car) and the other had no record of being titled (hopefully the race car mentioned below).
After his death, these two cars were sold by the widow to the guy in Florida, who then sold them on eBay - a white race car with blue stripe that was sold to a guy in Vancouver (the Trooper had his name and has reached out to him also to see if that car had a VIN or BAE tag attached) and the Green car with wire wheels which I bought. Greeny also had an old NC rego windscreen sticker which indicated it had been registered in NC and may match a previous NC title on the car. NC DMV were supposed to search the archives for previous owners and get back to the Trooper.
I also informed the Trooper that the original color was Antique White, visible under the car, and red interior trim of which there are remnants remaining in the car. I suggested the only way to confirm the colors as a match to the VIN, and to obtain the BAE and engine numbers was to inquire with Heritage Motor Center in the UK for the car details. The Trooper sent on the following Monday a "criminal investigation" inquiry to HMC and overnight had a reply ! Turns out that both cars with the VINs we had were originally white with red trim, so no joy there, except that they were able to provide BAE and Engine numbers for both VINs at no charge.
So, the next information received was that the Vancouver owner came back and confirmed he had a 3rd different VIN to the two "possible" VINs, which again did not help our case.
Then, a breakthrough !
NC DMV sent the Trooper the microfiche of title records for the suspected VIN number dating back to 1975. The Trooper then contacted the next in line previous owner to the deceased – apparently the only surviving previous owner - to see if he could identify the car as his previous Bugeye. He had apparently sold the car in 1998 to the deceased owner. After email contact, I sent him a link to photos of Greeny and he was not only able to identify the car, but told us that he had the car painted green over the previous blue, which was visible under the bonnet and had painted the red seat covers black. He also identified the Union Jack bonnet stickers, factory wood rim steering wheel, early wire wheels with drum brake setup, the unusual rear tire mount bracket and was able to send photos of the car painted blue and then freshly painted green.
So, now I have a confirmed VIN, BAE and Engine number and should be able to get an Illinois title, with a law enforcement inspection and a value appraisal from a licensed dealer or car club officer. Only took 18 months and a very diligent Trooper to solve the case.
Here are the “identifying” early pics of the car and a current day pic. When I get the title, the car will be for sale !
Cheers
Lew
