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66 Austin Healey fuel pump replaced

timmer2002

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I went to NAPA to buy a fuel pump, replaced mine, and I noticed that this pump does not stop pumping like me old one did, and now I have a gas leak just after my fuel filter, out of one side of the carbs. Is it the fuel pump?
 

red57

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I could be the pump. Depends on what the output of the pump you bought is, SU carbs don't like more than about 2-3psi.

I don't know what you bought but for example, NAPA sells Carter P60430 rotary pumps that produce 4-6psi and require a pressure regulator to keep it down to 2-3psi. If unregulated, they can overcome the float valve and result in overfilling the float chamber - sounds like what you describe.

The rotary pumps won't stop when they get to full pressure like the old Lucas pulse type but are a good pump. I have been running the Carter P60430 with a pressure regulator for over 30 years and they are very reliable - only had one die in 30+ years.

No matter what brand pump you bought, check the output pressure and get a regulator if output is more than 2-3psi.

Dave
 
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Timmer--

There are a number of "universal" fuel pumps that are sold both under the manufacturer's name and that of other companies/sellers such as NAPA which does not make its own--FACET and CARTER being two such brands. Not knowing more I would bet that your pump was made by one of those guys. If your fuel leak is new I agree with Dave and would suggest getting either a lower pressure SU or a pressure regulator for the one you just installed

I do not like the FACET cubes and find them to be unreliable and unnecessarily noisy (they clatter all the time regardless of fuel demand, etc) but many think they are wonderful. In Weber-carb'd race cars (which like SU's require 2 to 4 psi) I only use Carter 4070 pumps in conjunction with a fuel pressure regulator and turn them down to about 4 psi. I have never been let down by one. On my Healey I use a double-headed electronic SU.
 

steveg

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Michael,
You'd posted a while back about experiencing failure of two Facet pumps...

IIRC it had something to do with how they were mounted. Two failures in one setup argues for an external cause.

When mounted with the rubber isolator mounts, you can hardly hear them. My dual setup:

FacetDual0719.jpg
 

Keoke

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A

Timmer002:

In the interests of simplicity why not just get the electronic versio of your original HHealey Pump ?
 
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Steve--

You have quite a good memory, but the problem was oner of partial fuel starvation:

Years ago i mounted two FACET cube pumps in parallel (not series) without any valves but simply with a selector switch. I found that when I ran pump A some of the fuel it pumped would overcome the other pump's anti-back flow check valve and go backwards through pump B, essentially sending some of pump A's output in a loop so I was in effect getting reduced fuel flow to the engine. It took me a while to figure the issue out as the problem only occurred when I ran pump A--evidently B's check valve was not as strong as was A's.

I then mounted the two pumps in series and there was no problem with that arrangement: The first pump could push through the second and the second one could pull through the first.
But as stated above I did not care for the FACET's constant clatter and ultimately I progressed to my present arrangement-- a double-headed Lucas that Dave Dubois (RIP) rebuilt in solid state for me. I still have the selector switch which allows me to switch between motors--either one provides plenty of fuel.

I have also experienced other issues with FACET cubes: on one of my race cars one gave out after only a few hours' running. On another occasion I found that a cube was defective out of the box. OTOH the Carter 4070's have never let me down, nor has a solid-state SU. However I still like a belt-and-suspender approach on the Healey as the pump's location does not make for quick and easy repair.
 

steveg

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I got started with Facet gold box pumps on my Weber-carbureted Alfa GTV in the '70s and have not had any problems with them. I understand there are Chinese forgeries out there for cheap prices. When angle-mounted on the rubber mounts, they are noiseless when running. They feed properly when in series. They are used in aviation. I am not disparaging the Carter pumps which obviously work well, just sticking up for the genuine Facets which have an excellent reputation for reliability.

In my case, when I bought my car, it had a plastic West German pump; the SU hard connections were long gone. I had missing issues and replaced it with my first Facet around 2002, which is one of the pumps in the picture above.

Don't want to be argumentative, but wanted to put my own experience into the mix.
 
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Fine with me, and I do like your pump setup.
 

red57

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I've heard good things about the Facet pumps too. I happened to get started using the Carter rotary pumps because my BT7 had one when I bought it in 1987, and it was very reliable, small, and nearly silent. For a while, when I was racing I was a concerned about running lean at high revs so I ran a 4070 but later discovered I didn't need the greater volume and went back to the 60430.

One difference with the Carter rotary pumps is that they don't have internal check valves. Carter tech support says running them in series puts too much restriction on the one doing the work so you have to run them in parallel with external check valves.

I really like having a back-up too. Here is a pic of my set-up in parallel with check valves (regulator is up front at the carbs).
IMG_2778.jpg
 
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Red--

That is VERY nice work--more along the lines of systems I have seen on high-quality yachts than on race cars!
 

Lin

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Dave,
I am just curious and my question is not in any way a criticism because you have done beautiful work, but since you have completely reworked your fuel system plumbing from the tank, why did you not move the fuel pump assembly to the other side of the car so that it would not be located over the exhaust? As I said, I am just curious because I expect you have a reason.
Lin
 

red57

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Thanks you guys for the kind words.

Lin, Good question - several reasons:

1) I'm not totally sure about my exhaust system yet, but for the last 20 years I've run a side dump in front of the rear tire on my 100-6 and may do that this time & if so, no issue.

2) I've never been totally convinced it's particularly dangerous this way, they made thousands before switching sides. I've never had a leak at or around the fuel pump, although I'm sure it's possible. OTOH, the other side has the main battery cable nested against the fuel line which could get very hot if shorted - which is potentially more dangerous?

3) Although I love 'personalizing' my car, I have always tried to make sure any mods are easily reversible since I am just a 'caretaker', and the future owner may want stock stuff. So I built the mounting plate to bolt to the existing fuel pump weld nuts because this was the easiest way and didn't require new holes in the right side bulkhead. The pumps, filters, check valves and connecting fittings are all attached to the mounting plate on the bench. Then just four Allen bolts to secure the assembly to the bulkhead.

4) The fuel system plumbing is stock routing - except for using a slightly different shape of the line from the tank to reach my connection at the fuel pumps, and shortening and re-flaring the line to the carbs (I used copper/nickel lines so they are easy to re-shape). Otherwise all the stock fuel line mounting clips and such are still used.

5) I have the 100-6 I raced and this early BT7 I'm working on and both have the fuel pump on the left. Never having had one with the fuel line on the right, I'm not too sure of the routing of the fuel line in the engine compartment if run up the right side.

In short, this seemed like the easiest and most easily reversible way to go.

Dave
 

Lin

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Thanks Dave,
I appreciate the thoughtful response! Of course, my BT7 has the pump located where your pumps are found. However, I have my backup pump on the boot bulkhead. After seeing your setup I am thinking about “borrowing” your approach. Again, really nice job.
Lin
 

vette

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Dave you have done beautiful work with your fuel pump arrangement. I too spent quite a bit of time deciding which way to install a dual pump system. I have never understood the need to install fuel pumps on the Healey that need a regulator or an additional external check valve. Just seems more complication to me unless you are running a highly modified engine. So I decided to install pretty much what the Healey originally had except that I used two electronic SU pumps and installed them in series. One on each side of the axle housing using the original mounting on the right side and making an exact copy of the mount to the left side. I have been running this set up for about 10 years with no trouble. I also worried about putting the additional pump above the exhaust pipes. After trying different approaches to isolating the left side pump from the exhaust such as making a pan or box under it i decided that any attempt such as that was useless because if there is a pronounced leak the aforementioned appendages would prove inconsequential. The only protection being to do a good job installing things and then disciplined inspection. I did run copper through out, I'm not sure that is any more of a deterrent than rubber hoses because anything can deteriorate. In 10 years I have never had a leak, thank God. As a comparison, look at the fuel fittings around the carburetors that are right above the exhaust manifold. How about the small weep tubes coming out of the intake manifold and dangle right near the exhaust down pipes. All potential fire hazards. As for worrying about nesting the fuel line near the battery cable. Well that's the way it was built to begin with. If that continues to worry just separate the nest. I don't have a good pic of my dual pump arrangement but I have one of just one side. The other side is similar. Then another pic of the unnested cable and fuel line.
But of coarse whatever way suits your fancy. This is how I did it.
 

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I think the main issue with pumps sitting above the exhaust was cavitation ('vapor lock') of the fuel above the hot exhaust. Kinda moot since you have the same issue with the carbs sitting above the exhaust (unless you have a 100S).
 

vette

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Bob, you might be able to make a case for that if the car is sitting still but under way I think there is enough air movement in the axle housing to keep vapor lock at bay. As a comparison, I have made quite a few custom exhaust systems for Corvettes. Trying to keep the pipes as close to the body as possible I have at times had 2.5” pipes as close as 1/4” from fibre glass without any heat distortion or discolouring.
 
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Bob, you might be able to make a case for that if the car is sitting still but under way I think there is enough air movement in the axle housing to keep vapor lock at bay. As a comparison, I have made quite a few custom exhaust systems for Corvettes. Trying to keep the pipes as close to the body as possible I have at times had 2.5” pipes as close as 1/4” from fibre glass without any heat distortion or discolouring.


So, the answer is to never sit still in a Healey? I wish it were that simple, but stop lights/signs and traffic jams keep getting in my way. Neither of my cars has heating issues underway, but the temp gauge goes up stuck in traffic, and both my cars have clean blocks, uprated radiator cores, and the BJ8 has a Texas Cooler fan. Both cars have cavitation issues when they're hot and have been, you guessed it, sitting still (esp. on hot restarts).

I heard somewhere, possibly Anderson/Moment that the reason for the switch from port to starboard were due to heat issues near the exhaust, but I can't prove it. I haven't heard of a single Healey catching fire because of a fuel pump leak but, I also don't have any heating issues with the BN2 that I can attribute to the muffler cooking the pump.
 
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