$4.49/gal for diesel ????

[NutmegCT]

AweMan: "How do we win?"

We don't. But we can stop being losers in the transport game.

Push local government to get some kind of transport system going, even if it's just a big ol' bus. At least it's a start.

If you live in "miles from here to there" country, at least get some car pooling going. Won't change the world, but you'll use less gas. If you fail, at least you tried.

And think about how your local state/federal rep treats the need for transport reform. Most likely, he/she doesn't, other than "We need more highways and lower gas taxes!". Maybe that's just too quick and easy an answer.

Our highways, bridges, and public transit systems have been crumbling for years. But folks don't get elected talking about that, unfortunately.

We can stop pointing at others, pushing the blame on 'em. And start doing something, anything, ourselves. If we can't win, at least we tried. If we don't try, we'll sure continue to be on the losers end of things.

Jeez guys - remember back when we were teens, and (at least) half the world envied our standard of living?

Onward!
T.

 

[DrEntropy]

Take hold of local government first, work up from there. Remember "town hall meetings" Tom? They are a "first step"... but it'll take generations to make significant change. After all, it took generations to get to where we are now. I doubt there'd be any interest in folks actually taking time from viewing "prime time TV" to go voice opinions at a local town meeting involving decisions about their local community anyhow.


We're doomed. :smirk:

 

[NutmegCT]

Hey Doc - not totally doomed in eastern CT (yet). Remember town hall meetings? Heck - we still have 'em every month.

Our next town meeting is April 23

Guess who's talking about getting a public transit bus service from here to the nearest "city"!

At the city bus station, there's a large food store, pharmacy, bank, hardware store ... and connections to regional bus and train lines.

one step atta time ...

T.

 

[DrEntropy]

we still have 'em every month.

I kinda figger'd. Down East is a bit better off in that department. Folks still know one-another. And there's interest in what happens locally. Coming from that environ into THIS place is culture shock. Apathy and chaos are the arbiters here. Transient population with a view to "get over" is the norm.

 

[Tinster]

The dummies even removed the trams from Copenhagen back in 72 and sold all the equipment to Egypt.
We just wish we still had them.

Me and the Mrs was takin' a private tour of Egypt in
an off-road vehicle. I asked our British speaking guide
how folks got from town to town, since I saw no roads or
other vehicles.

Our guide replied with great pride-

"We have excellent "Trained Lions"

I got all excited and asked the driver to immediately take us
to see some Trained Lions. The guide and driver looked at me
like I wuz brain dead.

A mile later they stopped the 4X4 over twin steel rails.
"Trained Lions" was in reality train lines!!

The Mrs got quite the chuckle at my expense!!

d

 

[NutmegCT]

Tinster: trained lions!

:lol:

 

[Tinster]

Tinster: trained lions!

:lol:

as pronounced by our guide

TRAY en LIE ons

And we saw statues of lions all over the
desert at ruins. Made perfect sense to me.

Trained lions pulling chariots or wagons.

 

[NutmegCT]

Dale - once in Scotland I sat down for breakfast. As I scratched the B&B owner's friendly old cat, the owner asked if I'd like a cup of tea.

Black, green, or hair ball.

You guessed it - that was her pronunciation for "herbal".

I chose black. I was already a bit green.

T.

 

[tomshobby]

Come and live in England we pay $10+ a Gallon

I am under the impression that your fuel cost is not so different but the added tax for your national health care system is a very big part of the total.

 

[TR6oldtimer]

We have buses that don't run when I need them or go where I want them when I want them to. I took a bus to work once, where work was 3.5 miles or about 13 minutes by car. Caught the bus two blocks away, then because I was picked up on the first quarter of the route, got to see a lot of the city I never saw. I arrived at the transfer station 45 minutes later. Waited 15 minutes for the connection. 35 minutes later finally at work, cost $2. Time 1 hour and 35 minutes and all spent with some interesting people.

The city once considered using Jeepne type transportation. No set route, no set time. Pick you and others along the way up (which makes it work) then drops you off. Shot down by the employee union for the transportation district.

 

[aerog]

Come and live in England we pay $10+ a Gallon

I am under the impression that your fuel cost is not so different but the added tax for your national health care system is a very big part of the total.

I posted this earlier in another thread. Based on the latest numbers I was able to access a couple of weeks ago, the <span style="font-style: italic">actual</span> cost of gasoline in the US was $2.78. In the UK it was $2.06. Anything else is <span style="font-style: italic">tax</span>.

 

[mailbox]

Oh, if we only had the mass transit systems like in western Europe!

Yes, but wishing won't get us there. Voting may, but it will take a long time. Also, in the USA the distance between population centers is much greater. Mass transit MUST have government sponsorship because of the scale involved. Dub-ya and his ilk have no interest in a system that would use efficient electrical power if it endangers their investment in oil. So the next time you evaluate a political candidate think about it and what our children and grandchildren will face.

A question everyone should ask themselves. Would you ride? If mass transit came to your town, would you use it? THIS is the question that NEEDS to be asked. I know some of you would ride in a heartbeat, already do, but some of you wouldn't ride if your life depended on it. You can vote for all the busses and trains you want to until it get very cold (you know, freezes over), if no one rides them then they are worse than the original problem. Blaming one person is not the answer. We live in a culture that worships at the alter of the automobile. Why? Because we LIKE IT. Hey, look at some of our own members. They have several cars, some have 6,7,8 or more. Nothing wrong with this, but ask them to give them up for cheaper gas or lower "greenhouse gases" and most will tell you to take a flying leap. Is there an easy answer? NO!!!!!!!! Mass transit will help, but it won't solve your problems.

 

[weewillie]

As for diesel as a fuel: an internal combustion engine which can be run on all the dregs from the refined petro-tanks or the fryer grease outta the local MickeyD's...

You hit the nail on the head.

Ship engines (which recently have come under the spotlight for producing the largest bulk of CO2) are running on exactly that. The remains after all the lighter petrolium products are gone, like gasoline, diesel, engine oil, gear oil, grease, tar, asphalt, then what's left over is like glass at room temperature, and must be heated to 160 deg C in order to flow through the fuel pipes, then to be burned in ship Diesel engines.
Not exactly stuff for road going cars, but they do use up the heavy petrolium products that can't otherwise be used.

We have been recently testing alternative products for fuels.




Horse fat, other animal fat, liposuction fat (really).

absolutely right Donn, Bunker C heavy fuel oil also goes through an on board centrifuge to take the solids out.

 

[weewillie]

I also think that the railways should be utilized more in the transportation of goods rather than semis. Have trains take the goods to rail centres and smaller trucks to deliver them where they need to go. That way you still need the drivers just on smaller trucks and shorter runs and not on the highways.

 

[tony barnhill]

Guys, I just spent 6 weeks in Europe - there are cars everywhere!! You can't find parking spaces in city centers? The autobahns are crowded & the 2-lane highways are much worse. Having a well-oiled public transportation system doesn't necessarily mean gas prices go down.

Remember, this is an international market & countries other than ours are driving prices by their increased consumption over what was planned.

I wouldn't use public transportation just because it would limit my movements - & cause me to have to keep to some type schedule that might not work out to what I want to accomplish.....plus, the only bus system in the US that really works & can be depended upon is in Honolulu!

Besides, I like to drive!

 

[vagt6]

Oh, if we only had the mass transit systems like in western Europe!

Yes, but wishing won't get us there. Voting may, but it will take a long time. Also, in the USA the distance between population centers is much greater. Mass transit MUST have government sponsorship because of the scale involved. Dub-ya and his ilk have no interest in a system that would use efficient electrical power if it endangers their investment in oil. So the next time you evaluate a political candidate think about it and what our children and grandchildren will face.

A question everyone should ask themselves. Would you ride? If mass transit came to your town, would you use it? THIS is the question that NEEDS to be asked. I know some of you would ride in a heartbeat, already do, but some of you wouldn't ride if your life depended on it. You can vote for all the busses and trains you want to until it get very cold (you know, freezes over), if no one rides them then they are worse than the original problem. Blaming one person is not the answer. We live in a culture that worships at the alter of the automobile. Why? Because we LIKE IT. Hey, look at some of our own members. They have several cars, some have 6,7,8 or more. Nothing wrong with this, but ask them to give them up for cheaper gas or lower "greenhouse gases" and most will tell you to take a flying leap. Is there an easy answer? NO!!!!!!!! Mass transit will help, but it won't solve your problems.

YES, I would take mass transit in a heartbeat and so would millions of others. I think the clincher will be higher fuel prices. As prices rise, fewer people will be able to afford to drive and will be forced to cut back.

Using the "we won't use it" excuse not to build mass transit systems is literally a Luddite stance! Sure, roads are crowed in western Europe, but think what they'd be like if there was no mass transit! And, think of the added pollution!

Build it, and they will come, I say (but in areas where studies indicate it will be economically feasible, of course - big cities and their suburbs, for example).

"Build it, and they will come"

 

[Tinster]

"Build it, and they will come"

Not always true.

Our urban train finally opened with the beginning
of the line out in our neck of the suburbs. We were
really looking forward to hassle free trips into
San Juan proper.

But golly, no parking lot anywhere close to the station
and nothing of any interest within walking distance. So
the Bayamon urban train station remains unused. And we
still have the hassle to drive into San Juan proper.

And there is STILL a tremendous traffic jam every morning
and evening... while the urban train remains hardly used.

IMO- A waste of over $1 billion dollars.

d

 

[NutmegCT]

Dale - sounds like something was severely lacking in the planning department there. No one on "the committee" thought about parking at the station?

yikes!

T.

 

[Basil]

Man - how much better off we'd be if we had the choice to use a decent mass transit system for those boring, repetitive trips.

We could use the car only when mass transit didn't serve the need. Otherwise, walk a block to the bus (rail, tram, etc.) stop. No need to buy your own fuel, insurance, maintenance, etc.

T.

My trip to and from work may be repetitive, but I don't consider it boring...but that's me. In fact I find it a relaxing exercise which I would not want to give up. I actually enjoy my drive through the canyon each day and home again at night. (but granted I'm not in some large east coast or west coast metropolis). I actually bought the car I did because I enjoy driving it, not to have it sit in my garage. My drive each day allows me quite time to relax and think things through, sometimes I listen to music sometimes not. If traffic is too heavy on I-40 I often will jump off onto old route 66, which parallels I-40 from Albuquerque to Edgewood. If mass transit works for some folks, that's great - more power to em.

I have been on business trips to places where I had to use mass transit on a daily basis and I literally hated it (that is understating it). Besides which, my life style and job require me to drive across town from my office to other companies and/or to the local Air Force base at irregular times. Mass Transit would preclude the flexibility I require due to limitations in routes and scheduling. If (and that's a BIG IF) my schedule were such that I only needed to arrive at my place of work, and arrive home again after work always at a set time, then I MIGHT use mass transit if I could not afford to do other wise. However, they recently started bus service from here in Edgewood to town and back in the evenings. Not sure many people are using it, likely for the reasons I don't - lack of flexibility. Also, I did some back of the envelope calculations and riding the bus to and from work would only save me about $10-$15 per month at current rates - which would not be worth me giving up the freedom and flexibility I enjoy (require).

I'm not suggesting that mass transit not be built or used IF there is a demand for it in a particular area, but only after it is determined there is a demand and that it would be economically feasible for that particular area (it makes perfect sense in DC for example). I'm a big fan of results over good intentions.

On a related note, I heard yesterday that our Mayor is considering setting up "bike stations" where people who work in the main downtown area could pick up a bike and ride it for free and drop it off at any number of bike drop off points around the downtown area. Driving a car around downtown (which happily I don't have to do often) is a pain due to one-way traffic flows and limited parking. Thus, to me this idea makes a lot of sense as long as they have some mechanisms in place to preclude the bikes from being stolen. I've seen this used in Europe and it seemed to work well. I think it could work well in our downtown area as well - as a matter or practical convenience.


Basil

 

[Mickey Richaud]

On a related note, I heard yesterday that our Mayor is considering setting up "bike stations" where people who work in the main downtown area could pick up a bike and ride it for free and drop it off at any number of bike drop off points around the downtown area. Driving a car around downtown (which happily I don't have to do often) is a pain due to one-way traffic flows and limited parking. Thus, to me this idea makes a lot of sense as long as they have some mechanisms in place to preclude the bikes from being stolen. I've seen this used in Europe and it seemed to work well. I think it could work well in our downtown area as well - as a matter or practical convenience.

Basil

Now THAT makes sense. It's this kind of creative thinking that will make a difference. This will be interesting to watch...