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1500 Rebuild

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jcatnite

jcatnite

Jedi Knight
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All, I'm considering rebuilding the 1500 that is in my 76 midget. One of the things I was noticing was the cylinder sleeves. Has anyone resleeved an engine before. Back when I used to work on desiels we would resleeve them all the time but no special tools were required to do so. I was wondering if this engine was the same way. Also I can't seem to find any cam bearings or valve stem seals in the VB or Moss catalogs. I'm quite sure that it has to have stem seals right? Anyway, does anyone have a line on where I might obtain these items. I haven't checked with any of the local parts stores here in South Carolina but of the other things I've asked for pretty much all they've had are plugs and generic stuff. Just looking for a little advice.
JC
 
Even though the 1500 was the Triumph engine... you may want to search some of the parts inventory at Mini Mania. They primarily support the A-series Spridgets but may have parts for the 1500. It might also be worth contacting The Roadster Factory. As for the seals, I'm more familiar with the A-series and on those engines the intake valves got seals and the exhaust did not. Again, with the A-series the sleeves were repair items that had to be pressed in. On the 1500 I'm not sure if they were a slip or press fit.
 
Radford, I'm in Aiken just across the river from Augusta. It's about to get busy here with the National coming up.
Doug, thanks for the info. I figured the cylinder sleeves had to be pressed in but it doesn't hurt to ask right? Also, VB shows stem seals for the 1275 all the way down to the 998 but shows nothing for the 1500. I've never been into an engine that doesn't have valve stem seals but then again I've never rebuilt a british engine either...lol
JC
 
Know right where you are, drive through there to go to Charleston at least four times a year. Sent you somelinks offline, check your email.
 
I have some buddies in the local Triumph. I can ask them about the 1500 and sources for parts. The 848, 948, 998, 1098, and 1275 engines were all A-series while the 1500 is a Triumph engine.
 
Hello JC,
you may need to re-bore the cylinders if they are too worn. I don't know how many oversizes there are but probably three to four. Beyond that sleeving may be necessary (not necessarily economical) but they would be interference fit sleeves, not sleeve with seals.
The Triumph engine does not use seals on the valves either although some specialists in the U.K. do supply a modification to add seals.

Alec
 
Wow, thanks Alec. That was the confirmation that I was looking for. I can't believe it but I guess it has to be...
Guess the tolerances for the valve guides are pretty tight then. The engine has about 80k on it and from what I hear it has never been gone through. I plan to just do the top end for now..depending on the compression checks that I will do this weekend... and save the bottom end for when I pull it to paint the chassis.
Thanks for the info!
JC
 
The 1500 engine did not come with cam bearings. Many of us that rebuilt their engine did add cam bearings. I forget the engine size, but the Triumph engine the 1500 was derived from had cam bearings and they are the ones you should use.
 
[ QUOTE ]
The engine has about 80k on it ...

[/ QUOTE ]


with that many miles on it i would certianly check the crank end float. the 1500 is notorious for eating thrust washers.



mark
 
Thanks all, that is good information. I'm still staggering from the whole no cam bearings deal. I am struggling with seeing how it keeps from eating itself. Guess I'll have to try and understand it better when I open it up. Cams are so hard it just seems that it would eat the bosses out of the block. For the ones who did add cam bearings to their 1500's, did you have to have the journals on the block machined to accept the bearings? I guess that only makes sense. I've always thought that a reciprocating combustion engine was pretty much the same as all the others. Haven't checked the Haynes manual. Is there a way to measure the crank end float without pulling the engine and taking the oil pan off?
jc
 
Yes there is. pry the crank back with a bar, set up an indicator on the pully and then have someone depress the clutch. .006 to .01 IIRC. i believe you may be able to change it with the block in the car. the pan will come off ez enough.

mark
 
That's too slick. I always check endplay when I put new bearings in but have never thought about checking it with the pan on...I like it.
Thanks,
JC
 
Quick update. Just checked the compression and its 125# on number 4 and 135# everywhere else. Looks like the valves aren't as questionable as I thought. I dumped about 4ml of oil down into the cylinders and could get pressure up to around 155#. Guess that is pretty natural for an engine with this many miles on it. Sounds like the valves need adjusting a bit but that will be for another day. Haven't checked the crank endplay yet. I have to get a dial indicator and mag base first. The engine is still pretty rough on idle but it is running pretty good right now. The plugs are nice and tan after the first hundred miles on them...
JC
 
Yeah, as stated above, check the thrust washers...they are the real weakness in these engines. I've taken a couple of these engines apart and found the thrust washers in the oil pan.

I check end-play (as explained above) and replace every year in my 1500 race car.

You can have the block line-bored and fitted with cam bearing from the 1300 Spitfire engine (though my racer has about 50,000 street miles and is OK with no bearings....so far). An excellent source of stock and speed parts for the 1500 Spitfire/Midget enigine is Rimmer Brothers.

https://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/cgi-bin/rimmer?spitfire/engine

The 1500 started as a 948 Triumph Herald engine (different than the 948 Sprite engine). The only way they got 1500 CCs out of it was to bore it to the extremes of the block. I doubt that there is enough material left to fit sleeves...I've never heard of anyone doing this ("big block" Triumph engines, like the TR4 use sleeves as standard equipment).
 
I was under the impression that the 1500 had lined cylinders from the factory... is this correct? Moss Motors shows a cylinder liner in their catalog for the 1500 motor...
 
77:

You are correct...and boy, am I ever surprised.
I've had this engine apart twice and never noticed the sleeves. I even had the engine boiled and bored last year and didn't notice (neither did the machine shop guy).
I just went out and measured a junk 1500 engine....the edge-to-edge spacing of #1 and #2 (and #3 and #4) is only 0.225". Those sleeves must be thin! Ah well....live and learn!
Oh and Jeff just told me that the cam bearings from the 1300 will fit without line boring...then use the small-journal cam or have the 1500 cam journals ground down.
 
Yes, I definitely saw the sleeves when I had my head off ... I'm thinking of working on rebuilding my spare engine from Mark sometime this summer ... good to pick up some tips!

Matt
 
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