1500 Rebuild

[billspit]

I think the sleeves you guys are seeing in catalogues are for installing in an engine that has too much bore wear. The block has to be overbored and the sleeve pressed in. The standard engine does not have them. The top of the block around the cylinders is recessed and may be what some are calling sleeves. I've read that a 1500 engine can be overbored .060. I think that is the same as a 0.020 over TR-6 piston, which is supposed to be lighter and the cats PJs.

The 1500 does not use cam bearings, but as some have said, can be installed. The block ahs to be bored and its not cehap. John Kipping (well known Triumph expert) says the bearings aren't all that critical unless you are racing. He also says you can install Pinto valve seals, but you can't then use double valve springs. Leave the inner spring off.

Not only do these engines drop thrust washers, they eat big end bearings too.

 

[jcatnite]

When you say "big end bearings" which are you talking about? If I drop the pan to replace the thrust washers I had planned on probably doing the mains as well for gp. I know it can be tough to roll the upper bearings into the block but it's good insurance right?
JC

 

[aeronca65t]

"big-end bearings" = "connecting rod bearings"

 

[jcatnite]

Oh...lol. I thought maybe the journal closest to the flywheel was bigger than the rest or something. Rod bearings are actually easier to change in place than the mains. I was looking at the engine drawing a bit ago and almost think that it might be a little difficult to change the mains in place. Anyway, the crankshaft end float is right at 15 thousands. The spec according to the Haynes book is .006 to .014. Guess I'm due pretty soon. Got the valves adjusted. They ranged from .016 to .005. Got them all set at .011" now. I decided it was better to be a little loose than tight. I think the next item on the list will be to do a leakdown check. Probably won't get to that one till this weekend. Planning on pulling the timing cover to get a look at the chain and tensioner too. Any thoughts on how to hem the engine up to bust that big bolt off the front? I can turn the motor by hand right now so know it is going to be difficult. I thought I would engage the tranny and set the parking brake and perhaps chock the wheels as well? Thanks again,
JC

 

[aeronca65t]

Got the valves adjusted.......I decided it was better to be a little loose than tight.

Correct!

As for the big nut on the front of the engine, drop the oil pan and wedge a wooden 2X4 between the crank and the block. That will stop it from turning (this assumes that you're ready to drop the pan anyway).
Without dropping the pan, I'm not sure if puting in gear will work unless it's already on the loose side.
An impact gun works nicely too.

 

[Matthew E. Herd]

I put my car on a lift, put the parking brake on, trans. in gear, bought a craftsman socket (which happened to be the same size as the large nuts on the rear axles). The socket is either 1.75 or 1 7/8 inches. It has a 3/4" drive. I happen to have a matching ratchet and a long pole to use as a breaker bar. I cut the socket so that it would fit past the steering rack, then cranked away. The extension on the ratchet amounted to about 6' and I cranked until the wheels turned. While you may not have a lift, this is the basic procedure I used to tighten the crank nut. Make sure it's good and tight when you put it back on, or it WILL fall off (happened to me).

Matt

 

[jcatnite]

Well, I got her running again. For some reason my valve cover gasket didn't come in yet so I had to blue glue the old one so I could start the engine. The valves were more noisy than before...go figure.. I forgot what solid lifters sounded like. I'm assuming that it is best to do the leakdown check while the engine is hot? That was my plan anyway since that is pretty much standard for a compression check and this is very similar.
JC

 

[jcatnite]

Finished the leak down check this afternoon. Looks like the rings are worn a bit. I used a homemade rig and I think I ended up the the smallest restriction at the fitting that I screw into the head. So I'm not sure if my readings are accurate or not. What I got was like 3% on all of the cylinders. I know that probably isn't right so I might have to rethink the engineering of the rig. #2 cylinder has an exhaust valve leak that is enough to surpass what would have gone past the rings as I got nothing out of the breather on that one and you could barely feel air at the exhaust pipe. I guess between the valve and the rings pretty much the whole thing needs to be gone through. I think I will wait till this winter though. Going to work on the suspension a bit now and enjoy it while it's warm...lol.
JC

 

[rickdaily]

Hey jcatnite,
I just finished my 1500 rebuild about 2 months ago. It wasn't all that complicated. To answer your first question,
the cylinders are not sleeved from the factory, the top of
the block just appears to be sleeved. Trust me its not. V.B.
sells the sleeves for the job. The cylinder is bored under-
size to accept the sleeve with a .001 interferance fit/ inch, the sleeve is then "frozen" to shrink in size with liquid nitrogen. It will shrink approx. .011 in size. It is then installed in the block bore and as it warms to ambient temperature it locks into place because of the interferance fit.Its not all that complicated. I'm a machinist so I had all the equipment to do the job. If you take it to a machine shop though, your looking at about an hour per cylinder = 4 hours at about $65-$90 per hour. You do the math. Any shop with a Bridgeport Mill can do it as long as it has at least a 6" quill travel. It took me about 2.5 hrs to do it, but don't count on a shop your paying by the hour to work that quickly. I also done the rest of my machine work myself. I ground the head .020, and the block surface
about .005. So total I took about .025 off. You could end up with an interferance problem with the head and cylinder
if you take off much more. Now, as for the "big nut" that holds the harmonic balancer pulley on, you can use a air
compressor with an impact wrench to remove and reinstall the
nut. The engine may turn over a few times but it will break it loose. The same for tightening it. My impact wrench will
torque to 540 ft/lb's so I know after installing it with it and letting it "hammer" for a couple of minutes, its not coming off unless I take it off. Rick

 

[rickdaily]

JC,
Just as an afterthought. The valves are noisy probably because you adjusted them to the high side of the tolerance while they were cold. If you adjust them to the low side, maybe even .001 under the low side, when the car warms to operating temp the gap increases, therefore the gap goes over the top of the recommended gap. If you don't feel safe going under the recommended gap, use the cold setting tolerance. The manual should give you a "cold" and a "warm" tolerance. If you leave it to the low side you won't have to worry about burning a valve and it won't make all the noise. Rick

 

[rickdaily]

JC,
Almost forgot. There are no cam bearings and no valve stem seals. Believe it or not, the absense of valve stem seals does not create any problems. You may, and I did say may, get a little blow by when you first start it up. Other than that and keeping your eye on the oil level it works fine. If you check you'll find not many old cars used valve stem seals. They just go thru a little more oil than a new car. Besides it gives you another good reason to raise the hood on it a little more often. Thats part of the fun of owning a LBC. Rick

 

[jcatnite]

Rick,
Thanks for the info my friend. I used to live in St Marys GA so I know exactly where you are. We used to go to Fernandina quite a bit. The engine I have only has right at 80K on it so I'm not expecting to have to resleave it unless something catastrophic happens in there. As far as the big nut I was hoping to be able to get it off without pulling the radiator....right... Now I know better. I had a feeling that my engine had jumped time but it turned out to be ignition trouble after all. I do plan to pull the engine this winter and go through it. I am just out of spec on the end float and my compression/leak down test results are less than desirable. What did you do as far as the cam goes. Just put it back in there with no bearings? I'm just not sure I can slide it in there knowing there is no babbit for it to ride in...lol
Thanks again...oh and btw, are your machinist skills for hire? I would feel better giving money to a fellow enthusiast who I can trust as oppossed to someone who has spent 10 years boring out small block chevys...
JC

 

[rickdaily]

JC, My little Midget only had 32,000 miles on it, but the PO was the original owner which also happens to be my father-in-law let it set out in the backyard for the last 3 yrs. and used it as a dog house with access thru the convertible top. #%@*%*. Anyhow I'm completely going thru it from the ground up. Including stripping it down to bare metal and having it repainted. I do all the mechanicals, but painters get my respect cause I just can't do it. I've tried on other cars and it takes me 4X as long as it should with less than satisfactory results so I'll leave that up to someone who has to satisfy me. I'll pay for it but, it will be right or he'll do it till it is. JC, when you go thru yours this winter and if you want to do any X-way cruising, consider putting a 5-speed in it while the engine is out. I promise you it won't dissapoint you. I've rode and driven 2 midgets with the 5-speeds and the difference is unbeleivable. The little engine doesn't work itself to death at 70-80 mph and the less engine noise is fantastic. I'm putting the Ford Type 9 back in mine. Thats the most radical thing Ive done to mine besides just a few bolt on goodies. I want to get some extra horses out of it but keep it as close to original mechanically as possible. I'm intending on driving mine to alot of the meets around the midwest so I need it dependable. And yes I'll do the sleeves for you. Just let me know a month or so before you do it so I can let my buddy know I'll need his Bridgeport. If you purchase the sleeves, I'll do the labor for free. I'm just glad your rebuilding it instead of junking it. As far as the camshaft goes I Wouldn't do anything to change the engineering of the little engine. There are alot of these little cars running around with 100,000 plus miles on them that have never had camshaft bearings in them. Go figure. Don't sound like a problem to me. Just make sure you never run it hot. Rick

 

[jcatnite]

Kewl man, I would give you plenty of time. I'm hoping that I won't have to resleeve it but only a micrometer will tell me for sure when I open it up. I appreciate the offer my friend. I have been thinking pretty hard about a 5-speed conversion but I've got a ton of stuff to do to get it closer to right before then...lol.
Thanks again,
JC