• Hi Guest!
    You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

123 Ignition vs. Mallory

Share this page

A

AlexMayer

Freshman Member
Offline
Question from good old Germany to the Healey friends in the US:

I read through a couple of forum entries about the best possible distributor for my Mk1 BN7. After two years of continues trouble with my worn out Lucas distributor, I decided to upgrade to a 123 Ignition or the machanical Mallory. The local classic car dealers recommend the Mallory - maybe because it requires more maintenance........ Most reports on the web are telling great stories from the 123 Ignition. What are your thoughts? Thanks and greetings from October Fest City of Munich

Alex
 
Hi there,

I had the same problem with my Lucas distributor on my 100/6.

After 2 years I finally decided for the 123 ignition.

Once set up it is maintenance free and the car, at least in my opinion, seems to run much better.

It starts quicker and seems better when accelerating.

In other words, I recommend the 123

regards

Higgins
 
Alex

I should be receiving my 123 system any day now for my BJ7. Taking in consideration that it's not readily available in the U.S. or Canada as of yet I was somewhat leary of taking the leep for fear of obtaining parts if required in future. Knowing now that the 123 is basically comprised from Bosch parts it made it much easier to swallow! I found it to be cheaper than that of the Mallory as well.

DT
 
AlexMayer said:
...The local classic car dealers recommend the Mallory...
Click to expand...

Hi Alex,

I'd be interested in their arguments. Is it possible they sell Mallory and not 123ignition? I for myself can not imagine one reason pro Mallory.

Best regards
 
Rick60 said:
I'd be interested in their arguments. Is it possible they sell Mallory and not 123ignition?
Click to expand...

Hi Rick,

they would be able to get both for resale. Their arguments are:
1. less reliable
2. you'r lost when it fails. The mechanical one always works somehow......
3. They are using the Mallory in their E-Types and Healeys for races for years now.

Anyway - I just ordered a 123 and will try to sell the already purchased Mallory in the web. The Mallory looks pretty solid and mechanically precise. So for somebody who does not like silicon switches the Mallory seems to be a good deal.

Regards

Alex
 
AlexMayer said:
Rick60 said:
I'd be interested in their arguments. Is it possible they sell Mallory and not 123ignition?
Click to expand...

Hi Rick,

they would be able to get both for resale. Their arguments are:
1. less reliable
2. you'r lost when it fails. The mechanical one always works somehow......
3. They are using the Mallory in their E-Types and Healeys for races for years now.

Anyway - I just ordered a 123 and will try to sell the already purchased Mallory in the web. The Mallory looks pretty solid and mechanically precise. So for somebody who does not like silicon switches the Mallory seems to be a good deal.

Regards

Alex
Click to expand...
Alex,

I'm interested in the Mallory (which one is it; dual point/no vacuum advance?).

PM or E-mail me when you're ready to sell, as I was planning this sometime over the winter.
 
Hi Alex, thanks for posting. I've often wondered when the time comes to either rebuild my original or purchase new one. Just curious why you decided not to rebuild the original?
 
Hi Johnny,

o.k. - original is good but: I´ve done a lot of changes over time that do not change the look but improve performance (HD8 vs. HD6, head for unleaded fuel and bigger valves, stronger stabi,...) safety (brakes.....)and reliability (stronger starter, improved cooling). The biggest improvement by far brought the stronger stabilizer (hope that is the right word)combined with Avon race tires.

And now the distributor. Looks like as the 123 gives a better performance with better fuel efficiancy and better starting. So to me it's a no brainer.

Of cause I am keeping all the original parts in case that I am selling the car to a freak of matching numbers sometime.......:smile:)) Regards

Alex
 
AlexMayer said:
Hi Randy,

yes - it's the dual point / no vacuum. Model Number: 2367801. See:

https://www.malloryperformance.com/Produc...=&minselection=

Problem is: I am based in Germany! I'll let you know as soon I have the 123 installed without problems. Thanks for our interest, regards

Alex
Click to expand...
Yes, I realized that after I made the post. I suppose it will come down to your price with shipping compared to what one can be bought for locally.

I have 3 x 45 DCOEs on my car with the original ignition system. Before I get too deep fine tuning the carbs (a little rich at present) I wanted to add more fire to the spark.

But thanks anyway!
 
Did you see the post that one of the others put on one of the other forums?

It's about 123 ignition. On youtube. Go to youtube and put in 123 ignition, about the second hit down.

Interesting sales/techno pitch.


Only question I have is about European electronic components after a few years of heat, expansion, fatigue, vibration. To me they don't have a very good track record.
 
I have a Mallory dual point w/mechanical advance. Once set it has been rock solid and the advance curve and min/max adv. are easily adjustable with a spring kit. I need to send it in to have a gasket installed because it has an annoying oil leak out the bottom hole but other than that it has performed well. I can run it with positive ground and it was a lot less $$$$ than a 123.
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif
 
Re: 123 Ignition vs. Mallory--modernized Lucas alt

I decided to go the Lucas route--had Jeff at Advanced Distributors redo my DM6 with a Jag D22 shaft, which is now running in combination with a neg-ground pertronix and pertronix coil. Cost for all is around $350 US. Observations:
1) Pertronix coil is noticibly hotter than brand-new Lucas Sport Coil--I can see the difference with Colortune. Visually 50% larger spark.
2) Performance seems better, though I'd done the Pertronix conversion a while back and my DM6 wasn't worn out. Return-to idle is better with the later model.
3) I can't see how the Mallory with its dual-point increased dwell can improve on this. To me, logically, the 123, with it's various advance curves, would be the way to go if you don't care about the looks of having a modern piece of speed equipment in your engine compartment.
4) Jeff told me he knows of lots of Healeys that are using advances of 37-39 degrees. 123 and Jeff say to test for pinging by lugging at low speed up a hill and to advance it as much as possible under those circumstances.
5) Percentagewise premium gas is very little more expensive these days than mid-pump, so this should be done with premium.
6) I went with the Pertronix coil because my previous generic coil crapped out and ate my then-pertronix unit. Pertronix engineer on the phone confirmed if coil goes out, it can eat Pertronix, and recommended use of their coil, of course.
7) DM6 backup breaker plate with points will fit revised distributor with minor mods to mounting screw holes.
 
Re: 123 Ignition vs. Mallory--modernized Lucas alt

steveg said:
4) Jeff told me he knows of lots of Healeys that are using advances of 37-39 degrees. 123 and Jeff say to test for pinging by lugging at low speed up a hill and to advance it as much as possible under those circumstances.
Click to expand...

I would be very careful if using this much total advance. (Max spark advance, initial plus centrifugal, with vacuum advance disconnected, 4,000 to 5,000 engine rpm).

The usual maximum timing recommendations are in the 32 to 34 degree range. A couple more degrees of timing advance could be used if operating ONLY at high altitudes.

The common pinging when lugging at low speed up a hill is of course a sure sign that the advance should be retarded, the fuel octane rating increased, or this driving condition avoided.

BUT --

There is also a form of "silent detonation" which can occur at higher rpm & heavy engine loads. It is "silent" because of masking noises such as other engine noises, exhaust noise, wind noise. It may be silent, but, it is still as damaging or more so, than the commonly heard "lugging ping". To be safe, unless you are very sure, max. timing should not exceed 32 to 34 degrees.

There is only a small torque increase with over advanced timing, but the down side can be great.
D
 
Re: high speed detonation

I've heard of high-speed detonation before on the Healey News Group and wonder if there's a connection between the low-speed pinging we can induce at will and high-speed detonation. In other words, if you make sure you have no low-speed pinging, does this mean you won't have high speed detonation.

Or, is high-speed detonation in fact an urban legend--I mean, who among us has witnessed a broken crank that we know for a fact was caused by high-speed detonation?

Are broken cranks always caused by high-speed detonation. I've heard it melts pistons and breaks rings.

Does this happen occasionally in the racing community or did it happen once 40 years ago and the story's been re-cycling ever since.

It's very difficult to evaluate a situation like this because there are contradicting narratives all over the place.

And, like subsistance farmers, we cannot afford to experiment.
 
Re: high speed detonation

Hi Steve,
Low rpm detonation is not directly related to the high rpm variety. Centrifugal advance alone can put the timing too far advanced at higher rpm if the initial advance is too great.

Fuel mixture, port & chamber gas velocities, chamber temperature & chamber shape all have an effect on detonation & they are all much different at higher engine speeds.

If you can't afford to experiment, all the more reason to limit the total spark advance to a usually safe maximum of 32 to 34 degrees. As I said, the small power gain from more timing advance is not really worth the risk.

Not to say that more initial spark advance & lower rpm advance won't give better throttle response & power, especially if a cam with later intake valve closing is used.

It's just that if you increase the initial & lower rpm timing, it's likely that you should decrease the total centrifugal advance to stay under the 32 to 34 degree maximum. This is called re-curving the centrifugal advance & is done by most knowledgeable engine builders.

A distributor that is curved to work with a higher performance engine would usually be set up to have more initial advance, a quicker advance with rpm, up to 2,500 or so, & less total advance. It's the total advance that is important to engine safety, not the setting at idle.

Lacking the means to change distributor advance curves, the only safe way to do it is to measure & set timing at high rpm & let the idle & midrange advance fall where it will.

You won't find any contradictions amongst the really serious engine builders/tuners.

Whether you chose to believe high rpm detonation does or does not happen is your choice.
D
 
Re: 123 Ignition vs. Mallory--modernized Lucas alt

I agree wholeheartedly with the last paragraph.

MB factory school a couple of decades ago we got exposed to the insensitivity of the human ear to detonation/preignition. In class on a dyno(quiet environment) we dialed in to where each of us techs could discern knocking of preigniton/detonation. Then the insructor hooked up the knocksensor, we were all about 14 degrees behind the curve. The piston tops would not have lasted long like that.

This was supposed to be endorsing Dave's post, but two other twinkle typers got in before mine got posted.
 
Re: 123 Ignition vs. Mallory--modernized Lucas alt

Dave Russell The usual maximum timing recommendations are in the 32 to 34 degree range. A couple more degrees of timing advance could be used if operating ONLY at high altitudes. [/quote said:
Hi Dave,
I also got a recomendation for 38 degrees of advance with the 123. Maybe we should take into concern that this is an international forum. So there are lots of recomendations out with different gas types available in the countries. I understand you are having a max of 93 or 95 octane in the US while we are having 98 or even 100 available in Germany. So 38 degrees sounds a bit to risky to me with a 93 octane gas while 38 seems to be the best setting for 98 and higher. Regards
Alex
Click to expand...
 
Re: 123 Ignition vs. Mallory--modernized Lucas alt

Hi Alex,
I may have interpreted this incorrectly, but the gas in the US vs Europe is essentially the same. The math to reach the octane rating is different though. See this thread.
110 Octane
 
Back
Top