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100-4 Toe In/Wheel Alignment

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elgatto

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I replaced tie rod ends on 1956 BN2 and I need some info on how to proceed with setting the wheels for proper alignment. Manual states that front of wheels should be 1/8 inch narrower than rear of front wheels (toe in). The replacement tie rod ends from Moss are not the same (length of threaded section) as the ones that were removed. When I removed the old tie rod ends, I counted the number of revolutions/threads and when I installed the new tie rod ends I "eyeballed" the number of revolutions to get me back to where I started from. When turning center rod, I can't seem to get to the 1/8 inch toe in. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike

[ 03-31-2004: Message edited by: elgatto ]</p>
 
While of no help to get you in the range you're looking for (Dave has that covered), here's a tip for easy and accurate toe measurement. These Toe Plates are made by Longacre Racing Products, only cost $60.00 and include the two tape measures. And they work on British or German cars.
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Thanks for the pictures Randy. I have seen the adds in magazines but did not relize how simple they work with two tapes.
CDK
 
Hi Mike,
Welcome to the forum. You have a great car. I have no personal interest, of course.

I think you are saying that there is not enough adjustment range in the present cross rod & ends combination. You don't say whether the rod is too short, too much toe in, or too long, too much toe out.

Either way, you should be able to disconnect one end & turn the rod or ends to get it within adjustment range. A little trial & error should get things close.

Actually with modern tires, zero to 1/16" toe in is closer to optimum.
D
 
Interesting device. My mind cannot figure out how it works. If you measure the front and back at say 18 inches apart will you get the same at 24 inches especially if we are talking 1/16 of an inch? I understand that the distance is fixed but is that a standard for all wheels and tires and car types?
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Sure it will be the same, regardless of how far apart the plates are.
The sine of the angle x the length of the plate gives the same difference in the positions of the front and rear of the plates.

All these are, essentially, are straight edges to be used at the outside of the wheels, rather than measuring from the center of the tires, for convenience.
Jeff
 
Yes they will, but for any two points on each of the lines representing the diameter of the tire, the distances will remain the same. If you pick two points on one line, say, 24" apart, and pick the same two points on the other line, the difference between the wide dimension and the narrow will remain the same, regardless of where on the line they are located. It's all a function of the angle.
My toe gauge has the option of using either the angle, or the linear measurement of the toe.
I wish I could draw on this thing, it would make it easier to explain!
Jeff

[ 04-01-2004: Message edited by: Bugeye58 ]</p>
 
Now you guys have me confused.

Toe in specs are intended to be measured at the tire face, furthest radius from center of the tire. The most accurate measurment is to scribe a true line in the tire faces (tread) (circumfrence) & measure distance between the two lines, front & back. The scribed lines will remove the problem of any tire/wheel lateral runout affecting the measurment.

I think that when TH says 18" apart vs 24" he means a 9" radius from wheel center vs a 12" radius.

Measuring toe in at a diameter (radius from wheel center) that is less than the full tire diameter will give a reading that is less than the correct toe in as measured at the tire face (tread).

The Longacre "Toe Plates" appear to be long enough that their measuring tape slots are at or very close to the maximum diameter of the treads. If this is so, the measurments will be accurate, except for the above mentioned tire/wheel runout.

Also, it appears that if the "Toe Plate" just fits up against the tire, any sidewall bulge due to car weight could screw up the "Toe Plate" measurment. But I'm not sure if the plate indexes off the tire bottom or from points higher up on the tire or wheel.

I'll leave it up to you guys to figure out how what I have said correlates with your ideas. I'm not really sure what you are saying.

I will stick with the scribe method myself.
D

[ 04-01-2004: Message edited by: Dave Russell ]</p>
 
Dave, I think we're on the same page. I agree that the proper way to do it with a tape measure is to scribe the centerline of the tire and measure from there.
My optical toe gauge has two probes that touch the wheel, and then converts the angular displacement to fractional, depending on the tire/wheel size.
Jeff
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dave Russell:
Also, it appears that if the "Toe Plate" just fits up against the tire, any sidewall bulge due to car weight could screw up the "Toe Plate" measurment. But I'm not sure if the plate indexes off the tire bottom or from points higher up on the tire or wheel.<hr></blockquote>

While the plates aren't as accurate as a laser setup, I find that they're good enough to set the toe on the M Rdstr at 1/16" toe in, 0" toe and 1/16" (to as much as 3/8") toe out. On race rubber (by my standards anyway; Hoosier A3SO3) you can tell the difference in turn in ability as well as tune out a little of the built in understeer by manipulating the toe setting.

The bottom of the plate is angled out to get away from the tire bulge but I do find it is necessary to pull firmly on both tapes to ensure the plates are square against the tire (at the measurement point).

These are by far the easiest method that I have yet used to measure my own toe settings (something I do several times a month during "the season") and you'd be hard pressed to find anything cheaper that works as fast.
 
OK, I'm about to make this toe adjustment as well, since I have recently installed new ball joints.

The toe plate device looks cool. But wouldn't some masking tape on the ground to mark on, a framers square to bring the front and rear radius points down to the masking tape for marking, and a good tape measure be just as suitable.

Trying to go on the cheap hear with stuff already in the garage.

Any wisdom in this scheme?
 
I made a set of toe gages like the ones Randy has pictured (after I saw a set). It's a nice simple idea that works well.
By the way, it's a good idea to set the steering wheel to the exact midpoint (half-way between "full-left" and "full-rihgt") *before* setting toe-in.
This is not just cosmetic (making the steering wheel look "straight")....it ensure proper steering geometry (correct toe-out on turns).
 
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