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AH67
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Was sold last week at Bonhams Auctions.. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20582/lot/357/
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62 BN7 for $69,000? Seemed low to me..
- Thread starter AH67
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It must be the missing heater control panel knob. Or maybe the inside-out gear shift lever boot. Just kidding.
You're right that other nice two-seat tri-carbs have sold for more - such as $100,000 for an all black one at the Gooding auction in Scottsdale a couple of years ago - but what's up with the ride height at the rear? It looks too high, like a Phase 2 BJ8. Weird.
I think part of the answer may be that Bonhams is a relative newcomer to collector car auctions in the USA, and the people looking for a nice Healey to buy at an auction more likely go to Gooding, RM, or possibly Barrett-Jackson.
You're right that other nice two-seat tri-carbs have sold for more - such as $100,000 for an all black one at the Gooding auction in Scottsdale a couple of years ago - but what's up with the ride height at the rear? It looks too high, like a Phase 2 BJ8. Weird.
I think part of the answer may be that Bonhams is a relative newcomer to collector car auctions in the USA, and the people looking for a nice Healey to buy at an auction more likely go to Gooding, RM, or possibly Barrett-Jackson.
davidb
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My two cents.
Not sure that this is a "low" price. Auctions seem to bring out the people with big bucks, who get caught up in the excitement and bright lights. Maybe it's just my "frugal" tendency, when I look for value in an item. True, from what I've seen/read, you can pick up the odd bargain at a classic car auction, but in my estimation the money that collectors are forking over for these vehicles is, for the most part, over the top. I always shake my head when car magazines editorialize on these prices paid, claiming most of them to be "well bought". Now I grant you that with the soaring costs of a good restoration, you need to get big money just to recoup those costs, but that's another issue. How can the ordinary Joe ever hope to own a decent Healey (just as an example), when prices have gone stratospheric? It's not based on good value, or owning something to enjoy it - it's based to a large degree on speculation that prices will continue to rise. OK there's nothing wrong with that, and I'm all for making a profit, but at the same time, has the rationale for owning these cars changed, for the worse?
Look, this is just my humble opinion, as I'm certain others share a different point of view, and that's always welcome. All of you who have either painstakingly restored or maintained your vehicles over the years know that your personal blood, sweat and tears labour costs work out to about $1 an hour, and at the end of the day you should be rewarded. But from what I can tell from reading the posts, you're doing it for the love of the sport, not the capital gain, and I say you've done well.
Cheers
DB
Not sure that this is a "low" price. Auctions seem to bring out the people with big bucks, who get caught up in the excitement and bright lights. Maybe it's just my "frugal" tendency, when I look for value in an item. True, from what I've seen/read, you can pick up the odd bargain at a classic car auction, but in my estimation the money that collectors are forking over for these vehicles is, for the most part, over the top. I always shake my head when car magazines editorialize on these prices paid, claiming most of them to be "well bought". Now I grant you that with the soaring costs of a good restoration, you need to get big money just to recoup those costs, but that's another issue. How can the ordinary Joe ever hope to own a decent Healey (just as an example), when prices have gone stratospheric? It's not based on good value, or owning something to enjoy it - it's based to a large degree on speculation that prices will continue to rise. OK there's nothing wrong with that, and I'm all for making a profit, but at the same time, has the rationale for owning these cars changed, for the worse?
Look, this is just my humble opinion, as I'm certain others share a different point of view, and that's always welcome. All of you who have either painstakingly restored or maintained your vehicles over the years know that your personal blood, sweat and tears labour costs work out to about $1 an hour, and at the end of the day you should be rewarded. But from what I can tell from reading the posts, you're doing it for the love of the sport, not the capital gain, and I say you've done well.
Cheers
DB
Healey 100
Jedi Warrior
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Boy, we have come a long way when $69K for a Healey BN7 is viewed as a low price!
I was at the Bohnam's auction, they had three or four Healeys, including one BN2. If I recall, all were very clean drivers, none of them were close to gold level concours candidates. The ones that sold were all in the 60K range. B-J had a few Tanner beauties. I think a golden biege BJ8 went for 97K
The auctions are fun but the real winners are always the auction companies. Many of the cars are prepped by auction consignment specialists, who know how to amp up curb appeal. Most of the sales involve commissions totaling near 20%. Some no reserve cars are bought by their owners trying to recover from high expectations.
No doubt, the high auction prices trickle down to our everyday Healeys, but I would take all the numbers with a grain of salt. But do go to the auctions if you get a chance. It is one of the best car shows you could hope for, expecially when you visit all the venues at Bonhams, Gooding, RM, Silver and B-J. The cars they find to sell are simply amazing, can't imagine how they find the cars to sell year after year.
I was at the Bohnam's auction, they had three or four Healeys, including one BN2. If I recall, all were very clean drivers, none of them were close to gold level concours candidates. The ones that sold were all in the 60K range. B-J had a few Tanner beauties. I think a golden biege BJ8 went for 97K
The auctions are fun but the real winners are always the auction companies. Many of the cars are prepped by auction consignment specialists, who know how to amp up curb appeal. Most of the sales involve commissions totaling near 20%. Some no reserve cars are bought by their owners trying to recover from high expectations.
No doubt, the high auction prices trickle down to our everyday Healeys, but I would take all the numbers with a grain of salt. But do go to the auctions if you get a chance. It is one of the best car shows you could hope for, expecially when you visit all the venues at Bonhams, Gooding, RM, Silver and B-J. The cars they find to sell are simply amazing, can't imagine how they find the cars to sell year after year.
drambuie
Jedi Warrior
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I could not add much to your post! I agree 100% ... I have seen bidders at the Barrett Jackson auction bid crazy amounts for Non-correct Healeys...Which tells me they have more money then brains! Just because people with little education for knowing what certain cars are worth,and paying big money for them, Does not make that particular car worth more! I really don't feel people at auctions set the standard for pricing! The real gauge and measure of what a car is worth is more rightly defined by people who are active in the hobby...those people who restore them and have a real passion for keeping them on the road! And that relates directly to people who are in this forum and like minded. Michael, IL.
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Also bear in mind that most of the cars at these auctions are either fully and recently restored, or close to it. (I said "most", not "all.") If you are a collector and you've decided that you want a Big Healey, these auctions are not really a bad idea.
First of all, they bring the cars to you. You don't have to study the latest issue of Hemmings and then fly to 12 different locations to inspect 12 different cars. That costs both time and money. Instead, the auction company brings them all to you in a nice vacation location. If the sellers have a clue, they hang around their car when it is on display before being auctioned, and you get a chance to talk with them about it, see the photo albums of the restoration, etc. You may get to talk with knowledgeable people at the auctions, people who would otherwise be unavailable to you.
Most of the people buying these cars at auction do not have the time or desire to join the club, spend years going to meetings and shows to learn about the cars and develop a network of experts, etc., etc., etc. If I won the lottery and decided I wanted a high-end Ferrari, I would not start by re-configuring my entire social life and seek a new group of friends and spend years studying and observing and traveling to learn everything about Ferraris. I'd probably do some study, read a couple of books, scour the Internet, make a few calls, and attend an auction or two.
Those of us who hang out here are mostly long-term, dedicated enthusiasts. Most of the guys who buy cars at these auctions are not, and for them it makes sense to pay a premium for the convenience and efficiency offered there. In most cases they get a very nice car, and they really, really, really do not care if the shade of the engine paint is slightly too light, or if the nap of the carpet is slightly too thick. They're not going to bring these cars to a Healey club meeting and hold them up for inspection or even casual judgement of other attendees. They may enjoy just driving it, and/or they may just enjoy having it sitting out there in their 20,000 square-foot car storage building with all of their other trophies.
The real problem - for us - is that many owners get the idea that their car is worth the price paid at auctions, or, thinking that theirs is "80 percent as good as those cars," that it is worth 80 percent of auction prices. That causes price inflation, something which has both positive and negative aspects. Many owners fail to consider the premium built into those auction prices for the service that the auction company provides: bringing sellers and buyers together in one nice location all at the same time, and that's worth a lot to many people.
First of all, they bring the cars to you. You don't have to study the latest issue of Hemmings and then fly to 12 different locations to inspect 12 different cars. That costs both time and money. Instead, the auction company brings them all to you in a nice vacation location. If the sellers have a clue, they hang around their car when it is on display before being auctioned, and you get a chance to talk with them about it, see the photo albums of the restoration, etc. You may get to talk with knowledgeable people at the auctions, people who would otherwise be unavailable to you.
Most of the people buying these cars at auction do not have the time or desire to join the club, spend years going to meetings and shows to learn about the cars and develop a network of experts, etc., etc., etc. If I won the lottery and decided I wanted a high-end Ferrari, I would not start by re-configuring my entire social life and seek a new group of friends and spend years studying and observing and traveling to learn everything about Ferraris. I'd probably do some study, read a couple of books, scour the Internet, make a few calls, and attend an auction or two.
Those of us who hang out here are mostly long-term, dedicated enthusiasts. Most of the guys who buy cars at these auctions are not, and for them it makes sense to pay a premium for the convenience and efficiency offered there. In most cases they get a very nice car, and they really, really, really do not care if the shade of the engine paint is slightly too light, or if the nap of the carpet is slightly too thick. They're not going to bring these cars to a Healey club meeting and hold them up for inspection or even casual judgement of other attendees. They may enjoy just driving it, and/or they may just enjoy having it sitting out there in their 20,000 square-foot car storage building with all of their other trophies.
The real problem - for us - is that many owners get the idea that their car is worth the price paid at auctions, or, thinking that theirs is "80 percent as good as those cars," that it is worth 80 percent of auction prices. That causes price inflation, something which has both positive and negative aspects. Many owners fail to consider the premium built into those auction prices for the service that the auction company provides: bringing sellers and buyers together in one nice location all at the same time, and that's worth a lot to many people.
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Johnny
Darth Vader
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Since were all putting in our 2C worth I'll add mine. A local classic car broker in this area told me once that the way for an individual to price his car, reasonably, is to first add up what it cost you, in resto/parts etc., then add an additional $15K for your time and labor and surprisingly you'll come up with a pretty good ballpark figure.
Healey 100
Jedi Warrior
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What you spent on a car has little to do with what it can sell for. It all depends on what the buyer at the time is willing to pay.
FYI, what looked like a very nicely restored red/black 100M at RM petered out around 100K, was a no sale. Last year a nice white 100M went for 160K. Probably doesn't mean much, guess there wasn't a 100M enthusiast in the room at the time.
FYI, what looked like a very nicely restored red/black 100M at RM petered out around 100K, was a no sale. Last year a nice white 100M went for 160K. Probably doesn't mean much, guess there wasn't a 100M enthusiast in the room at the time.
Online
It does seem as thought the BJ8's with their non-stock colors, both interior and exterior, bring the most money. I personally don't see anything wrong with non-stock/original colors including mechanical modifications to enhance or upgrade the cars. I personally am leaning towards original red interior with my beige Healey but with Leather, per my wifes instructions(am I lucky or what?), however when I showed my wife a Beige Healey that sold last August that had a white/parchment interior with Fawn color of carpet and she said "that's it"! She's a retired Designer so she does have an "eye" for color, etc. Yep, she said "chrome wire wheels too(did i say I'm lucky?). Do your car to your taste and if it's done high quality someone will want it when you decide to sell it. Prices are still all over the board IMHO and it does vary from auction house to auction house. You may pay more at the auction but it does seem that the cars are better prepared to be sold at the auctions than from a private owner selling at home.
Bob_Spidell
Yoda
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Was there any issue with the provenance of the car?
drambuie
Jedi Warrior
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There has been a Factory 1956 Red and Black 100M languishing on Ebay for a long time! Month after Month...asking 150K I guess this reflects the current markets condtion! 10 years ago it would have been snapped up quickly! I guess investors are thinking twice these days! Who is to blame them...
As a recent BN7 buyer who has watched these cars on eBay for a long time, I saw few of the really pricey cars attracting bids above the $40,000 level, and even fewer ultimately sold. I suspect some people will pay the high prices that they see asked for fully restored cars because they understand how bad a really bad Healey can be, and what it might cost in time and money to right its wrongs. A lot of would be buyers likely strive to find a car with a moderate price that won't turn out to be a basket case.
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My experience has been that buying a car via eBay is a minefield: every time you take a step and don't get blown up, it's a surprise. My experience buying on cars on eBay has been so bad that I have developed the thought that the need to sell a car makes a liar out of ordinarily honest (enough) people. Quite often, they either need the money so badly, or they are so burned out wasting money on a given car, that they're willing to do and say almost anything to get rid of it. Often the lies are lies of omission, but that doesn't mean that you'll pay less fixing the stuff that they didn't tell you about.
Yes, sometimes the sellers are just innocent slobs who don't know a good car from a terrible one, but my observation has often been that glaring faults - ones that no half-way sentient being could fail to notice - are simply not mentioned, or are even denied. No, I don't buy cars via eBay anymore, and I believe that this situation is why most people bid so conservatively on eBay, with most cars failing to reach a market-price bid by the time they end.
My point is that this is yet another good reason why some prefer to buy cars at live auctions, even if they end up paying a price that seems high. You can inspect the car ahead of time. In fact, you can inspect many examples ahead of time, and you'll mostly know what you're getting into. You can bring along a friend with knowledge of the marque you're interested in. Sure, faults can still be hidden, but I'd rather buy a car at auction and find later that it needs $10,000 in mechanical repairs than buy one sight-unseen online and find that it needs a $50,000+ body-off restoration.
drambuie
Jedi Warrior
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I used to buy cars on eBay, and I have sold cars on eBay as well... I had only one bad experience but personally confronted the seller for a refund and travel expenses. From that time on, I made it my business to inspect any car in person that I was serious about after doing some due diligence before taking a flight....when I do fly out to see a car, I make a mini vacation out of it. The days are gone when I buy anything sight unseen!
bighealeysource
Luke Skywalker
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I've bought and sold cars on ebay and you have to do your homework when buying and encourage anyone buying your car to do the same. Have even offered a full refund of the down payment if after inspecting the car - if not done prior to auction end - the buyer wants out of the deal. Unfortunately there are many who sell their cars and do nothing but avoid the truth in their descriptions and talk about "buyer beware" ! On another note about the one 100M not selling, a white one sold at Gooding for $154,000 and a BN2 with LeMans mods sold for $82,500. Looks like the 100M market continues to motor on !
Regards,
Mike
Regards,
Mike
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Latest Auction Results:
B-J Scottsdale
Kurt Tanner BJ8 resto sage green: $80,300
Kurt Tanner BJ8 resto golden metallic beige (not one of the originals) $91,300
BT7 fresh restoration $48,400
RM Scottsdale
Kurt Tanner BJ8 golden metallic beige (don't know if original) $93,500
'56 100M recent resto no sale at $115,000
Gooding Scottsdale
56 LeMans mods $82,500
55 100M new resto $154,000
BJ8 - (best of show at 2011 Healey Rendezvous $104,500
B-J Scottsdale
Kurt Tanner BJ8 resto sage green: $80,300
Kurt Tanner BJ8 resto golden metallic beige (not one of the originals) $91,300
BT7 fresh restoration $48,400
RM Scottsdale
Kurt Tanner BJ8 golden metallic beige (don't know if original) $93,500
'56 100M recent resto no sale at $115,000
Gooding Scottsdale
56 LeMans mods $82,500
55 100M new resto $154,000
BJ8 - (best of show at 2011 Healey Rendezvous $104,500