Rear End Noises

[SaxMan]

Hi Everyone! I know it's been a while since I posted. I'd been so disproportionately preoccupied with my '53 Plymouth project that I let a lot of things slide, including putting off work on the Sprite. But, sometimes a little time away makes you appreciate things a bit more when you get back to them.

Throughout the last driving season, I had been having some issues with the brakes just not feeling quite right. I had put new drums on the rear of car last winter and just never quite had the adjustment dialed in right. I finally got around to addressing those issues. As I spun the wheel, what I thought all this time was the sound of the brake shoes hitting the drum was, in fact, coming from the hub assembly. I'm guessing I need new hub bearings. Reading the manuals, it seems like you can do this without removing the brakes. How difficult of a task is this? I'm wondering if I should just enjoy things now and fix it at the end of the 2021 driving season.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Not all that hard but you should likely renew the axle seals which are a pita to remove. Will need a seal puller. I replaced my Rear Wheel Bearings with Subaru 207-FF Sealed Bearings. I saved this note.
"When replacing the bearing, use a 207-FF (double sealed bearing), which then acts as a supplemental barrier against hub seal leak. You can purchase from any foreign auto parts store (also used in Subarus). If using a sealed bearing, be sure to lube the hub seal with some 90W before installing the hub to the axle, because it won't be getting the oil it normally sees. Hub nut torque (not shown in the manuals): 140 ~ 150 ft-lb. This size of Grade 2 nut, diameter 1.5" - 12 threads/inch x 1/4" thick is physically capable of much more (actually, it is capable of more than 900 ft-lb of torque)."

Between that and using several tricks to get a good Hub to axle seal and correct sealer Bugsy has zero issues with Leaky Axle Seals. I found these bearings in the Web. Pair for $65 and change.

dded to the kart successfully. What is next?X​

National Bearing Manual Transmission Countershaft Bearing 207-FF​

2 x $ 32.86 = $ 65.72​

Part Name : Manual Transmission Countershaft BearingBrand :National BearingPart# :207-FF

 

[Joe Schlosser]

Jim
Axles seals and a puller?

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Seal puller. Gotta spike on it to grab hold of the axle seal. Tricky to get it out and not score the bore. Just be patient. It will come out.

 

[DrEntropy]

Looks more like a lumberjack's tool than something automotive.

 

[SaxMan]

I'll probably hold off on that for a little bit. My daughter has been accepted to a residential program that starts in July, so I'd like to squeeze in as much top-down driving with her until she has to report to her new school.

 

[JPSmit]

I'll probably hold off on that for a little bit. My daughter has been accepted to a residential program that starts in July, so I'd like to squeeze in as much top-down driving with her until she has to report to her new school.

That's a huge step and I suspect many mixed feelings.

 

[SaxMan]

That's a huge step and I suspect many mixed feelings.

Yes on both counts. We know this is what is best for her. The changed environment due to the pandemic led to regression in her behavior, and she really needs to be in a very structured environment to get her back on the right track.

 

[Bayless]

Here's hoping for the best for her and her parents.

 

[SaxMan]

So, now that I've been driving the car for a while, the noise from the rear wheels is quite audible. When I put on the brakes, the sound goes away. It would seem to me that the brakes are scraping again. However, even with the brake adjusters dialed all the way in, the Emergency Brake cannot hold the car on a grade.

I did put new brake shoes in and replaced the drums last year. I bled the system this winter. The brake pedal feels great, nice and firm, and the car stops well. I still have the old drums and could put them back on to A/B them. I was thinking that maybe the springs aren't providing enough tension to the shoes. I put them in on the outside of the shoes versus between the shoe and the wheel cylinder, but I've read it didn't matter which side the springs go on, and they are providing decent tension.

I'm pretty sure I have done something wrong, but can't seem to find a fix.

 

[Bayless]

Seems to me the reason for the return springs on the back side is to hold the shoes against the backing plate. We don't have those little "top hat" springs to do it. If your springs are on the outside, the shoes may be rubbing against the drum. Should be fairly easy to determine that but maybe a little paint on edge of shoes to see wear.

 

[Joe Schlosser]

The BE original rear brakes are supposed to have the top hat springs to hold the shoes. The return springs are on the inside of the shoes.

 

[SaxMan]

I finally started digging into the rear end. I was able to get the axle shaft removed. When I did, a bunch of gear oil poured out, maybe about a 3 - 4 inch puddle? Is this normal or has one of the oil seals bitten the dust? When I pulled the drum, it was wet. I assumed it was a leaking rear wheel cylinder, which it still may be. However, if there was gear fluid leaking, it may have gotten into the brake assembly, too.

I'm working on getting the hub bolt removed, but I can already tell that the bearings were dry. There's not a shred of grease in the bearings. Also, the paper gasket between axle shaft and the hub was not there. Someone just put the two pieces together with some sealant.

 

[JPSmit]

I finally started digging into the rear end. I was able to get the axle shaft removed. When I did, a bunch of gear oil poured out, maybe about a 3 - 4 inch puddle? Is this normal or has one of the oil seals bitten the dust? When I pulled the drum, it was wet. I assumed it was a leaking rear wheel cylinder, which it still may be. However, if there was gear fluid leaking, it may have gotten into the brake assembly, too.

I'm working on getting the hub bolt removed, but I can already tell that the bearings were dry. There's not a shred of grease in the bearings. Also, the paper gasket between axle shaft and the hub was not there. Someone just put the two pieces together with some sealant.

It seems quite common to overfill the pumpkin leading to leakage at the hubs. You should just be able to touch the oil with your pinkie finger through the fill hole. weird about the lack of gasket

 

[SaxMan]

Phew. I thought I might have had a bigger problem on my hands.

 

[JPSmit]

Phew. I thought I might have had a bigger problem on my hands.

should be simple - just make sure there isn't oil on the brake shoes as that can be a problem

 

[SaxMan]

EDIT: I figured out by looking at the parts manual that one nut is "righty tighty" and the other is "lefty tighty", but not sure which is which.

I removed the brake shoes, so they weren't anywhere close when the gear oil came out.

Is there a trick to removing the hub nut? Both the right and left ones are stuck fast. I have a 2" socket on a breaker bar for the left hub nut and it won't budge. The right hub nut is rounded off . Both have indentations for what appears to be a chisel. I know the proper tool is something called a "hub nut spanner". Not sure if I need that, or it will help with the rounded nut. I can get a box wrench around the rounded nut, but not sure I can get enough torque to release it. I supposed cutting the nut is always an option, but I don't want to risk damaging the threads on the hub.

 

[Stan Kowznofski]

Pipe wrench

 

[JPSmit]

EDIT: I figured out by looking at the parts manual that one nut is "righty tighty" and the other is "lefty tighty", but not sure which is which.

I removed the brake shoes, so they weren't anywhere close when the gear oil came out.

Is there a trick to removing the hub nut? Both the right and left ones are stuck fast. I have a 2" socket on a breaker bar for the left hub nut and it won't budge. The right hub nut is rounded off . Both have indentations for what appears to be a chisel. I know the proper tool is something called a "hub nut spanner". Not sure if I need that, or it will help with the rounded nut. I can get a box wrench around the rounded nut, but not sure I can get enough torque to release it. I supposed cutting the nut is always an option, but I don't want to risk damaging the threads on the hub.

I bought a very manly 3/4 drive socket set from harbour freight and the socket had just enough bite to get on the nut. The nuts are handed so they don't loosen while driving - so, they will both loosen towards the rear of the car.

 

[Scargo]

The left side is reverse thread.