Decisions, Decisions ...

michalotti_tr

Jedi Knight

Offline

• Oct 28, 2005

• #1

Well, I've almost convinced myself to do it - pulling the 4-banger from my '4A and swapping in an inline 6. I've narrowed it down to either the TR6 motor or 2.8L BMW.
My problem is the current engine is a rare SAH motor built in England. It was seized up from being parked in a junkyard for 10 years, but I freed it up (at the expense of cracking 1 liner) and it turns nicely now. I have spare liners and a rebuilt shortblock so the engine can be saved easily.

So, what do y'all think I should do? Rebuild the 4? Drop in a 6? Anybody want to swap a 6 for a 4 & 1/2? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Sell the engines and OD trans and go modern and build a sleeper Vette killer?

FYI, other mods to the car include fiberglass fenders (done by SAH as well) Miata seats and Mustang Bullitt wheels. I plan to eventually replace hood and trunck lids with fiberglass or aluminum at some point to furter reduce weight.

I need input! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif (or maybe just a straightjacket!)

 

Andrew Mace

Moderator

Staff member

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• Oct 28, 2005

• #2

[ QUOTE ]
I need input! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif (or maybe just a straightjacket!)

[/ QUOTE ]Heck, Ray, it's your car, so you can do whatever pleases you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
If it were mine, I'd try to keep the "SAH-ness" of the car intact. I'm not convinced that a 6 will make it any better a car than the old wet-liner 4...just different!

 

S

sammyb

Luke Skywalker

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• Oct 28, 2005

• #3

The TR6 engine just produced a little more usable torque, but the same HP. The TR-250 delivered identical performance to the 4A.

One thing to consider is that the car is no more valuable with a BMW engine...in fact, it probably would be worth less, because it is a very unorthodox conversion. You're also talking about engines that can be extremely costly to maintain and fix. And as for "Vette killer," the only Bimmer engines that can really give you Vette-beating performance are the M-tuned engines, which are very, very expensive. BMWs haven't been known for being powerful until recent M cars. Most BMWs were indeed underpowered, and made their quick lap times on good handling balance, which a BMW engine will simply not provide in a TR application.

Don't get me wrong -- I love BMW engines. I'm just not certain it's something I would drop in a TR4. But it's your car, and you do what you want -- not what I or anyone else would do.

 

G

Guest

Guest

Guest

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• Oct 28, 2005

• #4

Hey Ray, do you have a picture of your car with those wheels on it? How did you get ones that fit or are the hubs different? Are they Ford factory bullits or american racing torque thrusts? Sorry for all the questions but I'm a Mustang freak and if I could get a set of torque thrusts/bullits to fit my TR6 that would be something I'd really be interested it!

 

OP

michalotti_tr

Jedi Knight

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• Oct 28, 2005

• #5

I appreciate the advice to keep it original, but as I pointed out - it already isn't original. There is a part of me that would like to see the SAH heritage preserved, but another part of me would dearly love a 6-cylinder. My reference to being a Vette killer was a bit overstated - but considering my car hovers around 2000 lbs, putting a 190 hp engine in it would make it capable of outperforming a lot of more recent sports cars.

Like I said, at this point I'm looking for opinions - I'm still doing basic restoration.

 

OP

michalotti_tr

Jedi Knight

Offline

• Oct 28, 2005

• #6

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Ray, do you have a picture of your car with those wheels on it? How did you get ones that fit or are the hubs different? Are they Ford factory bullits or american racing torque thrusts? Sorry for all the questions but I'm a Mustang freak and if I could get a set of torque thrusts/bullits to fit my TR6 that would be something I'd really be interested it!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Scott,

I don't have a picture at this point other than the drawing I'm using as an avatar. These are factory Bullitt wheels - 17x8" with 245/45-17 Goodyears. Write me offline if you want to know specifics of how I fitted them.

 

beez

Senior Member

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• Oct 28, 2005

• #7

Ray,

Do you have current pictures of your car with the Bullitt wheels fitted?

 

bobh

Jedi Warrior

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• Oct 28, 2005

• #8

Ray,

I'm also interested in how you were able to mount the wheels. Adapting 5 lug wheels to a 4 lug pattern opens up a a plethora of options.

BOBH

 

Paulus

Senior Member

Silver

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• Oct 28, 2005

• #9

Miata seats? Mustang Wheels? I'd continue with the customization, there appears to be no reason to be concerned about the factory fitted engine. However, there may be someone out there that could use your TR engine to keep thiers close to original.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif

 

Alan_Myers

Luke Skywalker

Offline

• Oct 28, 2005

• #10

Hi Raymond,

Heck, just buy a TR6 if you want to play around with a 6-cyl. car! That would be cheaper, easier and you'd have another "toy".

Kept as it is, the TR4 will quite likely retain it's value far better. My personal choice would be to stick with that specially-tuned 4 cyl. engine.

But, it's your car and you can certainly do as you wish with it! Just let me know if you decide to pull the SAH motor and gearbox.

Cheers!

 

Don Elliott

Obi Wan

Offline

• Oct 28, 2005

• #11

I heard about the TR racer from California who wanted to lighten his TR race car. After removing all the steel panels and putting on the fiberglass parts, his TR was 13 pounds lighter. You can gain that weight reduction faster by dieting for a few days.

 

Banjo

Yoda

Offline

• Oct 28, 2005

• #12

Keep in mind converting a TR4 to a 6 cyl requires the re-engineering of the rack mounts and steering system. the rack on a 6 is mounted a few inches further forward than on the 4 and 4A to accomidate the extra engine length. The cross tube for the frame may need to be modified a little also.
Good luck on your swap. Here's another idea.. How about the twin cam inline 6 from a Toyota Supra or Cressida.

 

OP

michalotti_tr

Jedi Knight

Offline

• Oct 31, 2005

• #13

[ QUOTE ]
Ray,

I'm also interested in how you were able to mount the wheels. Adapting 5 lug wheels to a 4 lug pattern opens up a a plethora of options.

BOBH

[/ QUOTE ]

Your choices to convert are to redrill your hubs or use an adaper. If you use an adapter you have to take into account the change in the offset. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

OP

michalotti_tr

Jedi Knight

Offline

• Oct 31, 2005

• #14

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Raymond,

Heck, just buy a TR6 if you want to play around with a 6-cyl. car! That would be cheaper, easier and you'd have another "toy".

Kept as it is, the TR4 will quite likely retain it's value far better. My personal choice would be to stick with that specially-tuned 4 cyl. engine.

But, it's your car and you can certainly do as you wish with it! Just let me know if you decide to pull the SAH motor and gearbox.

Cheers!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Alan,

If I could have found a TR250 in my price range, I would have bought one from the beginning - as it was I rescued a car that was in a junkyard and rusting away.

 

OP

michalotti_tr

Jedi Knight

Offline

• Oct 31, 2005

• #15

[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind converting a TR4 to a 6 cyl requires the re-engineering of the rack mounts and steering system. the rack on a 6 is mounted a few inches further forward than on the 4 and 4A to accomidate the extra engine length. The cross tube for the frame may need to be modified a little also.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points, I'm already searching for a frame replacement - I have a marginal frame as it it currently.

[ QUOTE ]

Good luck on your swap. Here's another idea.. How about the twin cam inline 6 from a Toyota Supra or Cressida.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good suggestion - I have looked at that engine as well, and the twin turbo version is very seductive - if I remember correctly 240hp! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif I guess I could even put some rounded gear covers on the front and try to convince people it's a Sabrina prototype /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif (JK)

 

OP

michalotti_tr

Jedi Knight

Offline

• Oct 31, 2005

• #16

[ QUOTE ]
Ray,

Do you have current pictures of your car with the Bullitt wheels fitted?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, let's try this again - here's an artist's rendering of my car with the Bullitt wheels:

 

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G

Guest

Guest

Guest

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• Oct 31, 2005

• #17

[ QUOTE ]
Good suggestion - I have looked at that engine as well, and the twin turbo version is very seductive - if I remember correctly 240hp!

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, try 300 in the stock Gen IV Supra tune. My best friend has a 97 Supra TT with a mild amount of work in it and he just layed down a little over 400 at the rear wheels this past summer on the dyno. I'm talking very basic mods to get to that point from stock, fuel computer, cold air intake, exhaust, some turbo plumbing, boost controller, mainly stuff to make it breath better. The head and bottom end are compeletly stock. That is one of the greatest 6 cylinders ever built. Toyota so over engineered that engine, it was basically a 500hp motor detuned down to 300hp for the street. I've seen guys at the dyno laying down over 600 at the wheels, still with the stock bottom end, and they've been running at those power levels for thousands of miles its such a bullet proof engine. The huge gains like that typically come from replacement of the twin turbo setup with a massive single turbo.

 

OP

michalotti_tr

Jedi Knight

Offline

• Nov 1, 2005

• #18

[ QUOTE ]
Nah, try 300 in the stock Gen IV Supra tune. My best friend has a 97 Supra TT with a mild amount of work in it and he just layed down a little over 400 at the rear wheels this past summer on the dyno. I'm talking very basic mods to get to that point from stock, fuel computer, cold air intake, exhaust, some turbo plumbing, boost controller, mainly stuff to make it breath better. The head and bottom end are compeletly stock. That is one of the greatest 6 cylinders ever built. Toyota so over engineered that engine, it was basically a 500hp motor detuned down to 300hp for the street. I've seen guys at the dyno laying down over 600 at the wheels, still with the stock bottom end, and they've been running at those power levels for thousands of miles its such a bullet proof engine. The huge gains like that typically come from replacement of the twin turbo setup with a massive single turbo.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Luke, come over to the dark side" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif
Stop it man, you're making me drool! And here I thought I'd be happy with 200hp. Seriously, what type transmission are they using with that engine?

 

gbtr6

Jedi Trainee

Offline

• Nov 1, 2005

• #19

I've seen smal block fords in these. What about the Buick/Rover aluminium V-8. Go all the way!! It's probably close in weight, has a lot more HP and torque. Plus lots more parts to tune it up/modify it. I am not sure how difficult it would be , but I ran across a page on a V-8 conversion for a 6. If it's not an IRS car, you could even put in a Ford 8"" or 9". Perry

 

OP

michalotti_tr

Jedi Knight

Offline

• Nov 1, 2005

• #20

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen smal block fords in these. What about the Buick/Rover aluminium V-8. Go all the way!! It's probably close in weight, has a lot more HP and torque. Plus lots more parts to tune it up/modify it. I am not sure how difficult it would be , but I ran across a page on a V-8 conversion for a 6. If it's not an IRS car, you could even put in a Ford 8"" or 9". Perry

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Perry,

I've seen V8 conversions and considered them - and you're right, there's lots of upgrade parts available for them. I was briefly tempted by the 4.6L DOHC Mustang motor - especially with the supercharger option, but decided that part of the mystique that attracted me to LBCs and Triumphs was the silky sensuality of a straight 6. I'm willing to consider a more 'modern' 6 because the British originated the DOHC 6 back in 1948 (so much for those 'clever' Japanese or Germans!) I'm wanting to end up with a car that is a sheer pleasure to drive /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif - not a monster car you have to be afraid of.