TR6 TR6 Electronic Ignition

[DaveGT6]

A few weeks ago a 72 TR6 followed me home to keep the GT6 company. It ran rough, missed, and was low on power and by the smell of the exhaust I guessed it was running way to rich. I took a few minutes and went thru the obvious things on the ignition system- verified firing order, point gap, condition of the cap/rotor, wire connections and plug gap. No surprises and the plugs were carbon fouled, the back 3 were really coated. I took the car to our local LBC guru and he sorted out the carbs & verified the ignition system. The car runs MUCH better now! I was told the breaker plate was worn which was causing the miss, which it does still have. The mechanic suggested (thru the paperwork) an electronic ignition.
I was looking at the ones offered by the 'big 3 suppliers' of LBC stuff and I need some education.... Do these conversions include a new 'plate' or do they attach to the old one? If they just 'attach' to the old one what will I have gained except no points to replace? Are they as easy to install as claimed and relatively fool-proof?
This is essentially my wife's car and now that it's drivable I'd like to keep her happy.

 

[Marvin Gruber]

You have been informed correctly. The electronic ign goes on the original plate even if it is worn. It fires by signal not gap so it will work just fine. I put them on all my cars. They are easy to install, you'll want one on the GT6 as well.

Marv

 

[poolboy]

The Pertronix Ignitor is said to be more forgiving of slop. Usually it's the distributor shaft/bushing that causes the slop
BTW, Advanced Distributors can restore your distributor to like new condition. A very worth while project.

 

[DaveGT6]

Thank you both for the info. Its greatly appreciated. I'll order the electronic ign kit and have another project for next weekend.

 

[TR3driver]

Just to present the darker side; I had enough trouble with the Pertronix on my TR3 that I took it back off and went back to points. Root cause was probably a bad battery (it failed entirely a few months later), but it was a lot easier to start on points. That was over 2 years ago now and I'm still running points, haven't seen a reason to switch back yet.

Before that, on the (now wrecked) TR3A, I ran a Crane XR3000. It worked well enough once it was set up right, but I had a terrible time getting it to work at first. On the way to VTR 2000, I actually stopped at a friends house and switched back to points because the Crane was giving me an intermittent miss. I eventually traced that to the aftermarket rotor, which was interfering with the optical pickup. Not really Crane's fault, but that rotor worked fine with points.

I also had the Crane quit working entirely, on a dark night in the rain of course, due to hidden corrosion in the ground connection.

The engine never seemed to run quite as crisply with the Crane as it did with the previous electronic ignition, a MSD 6A. But I gave up on it after the second time it died for no apparent reason (and MSD said it couldn't be repaired).

Bottom line, my Triumphs haven't been any more reliable with electronic ignition than with points. Less maintenance perhaps, since the electronic doesn't have to be changed or cleaned and adjusted (but you still need to do other things at the same intervals). And with points & condenser, it's easy to toss the old ones in the glove compartment after a tune-up; and install them on the side of the road if you have a sudden failure. Carrying a spare electronic module is a lot more expensive, and harder to change on the side of the road.

YMMV

PS, The Pertronix is still affected by wear/wobble; just not as much as points are. Optical systems like the Crane are better in that regard, but still affected to a smaller extent. IMO you should fix the underlying problem, not try to use electronics as a band-aid.

 

[poolboy]

The only "problem" you may have is that the spade connectors on the ends of the 2 pertronix wires may be a bit too small for the male spades on your coil...The Pertronix wires will certainly be long enough to cut and install the right size female spades...that is unless you've relocated your coil from the side of the engine.

Here'another tip or two..
If for some reason you need to have the ignition Key in the "ON" position when the engine is not running, unplug the Pertronix wires from the coil.
It is possible that a constant current running thru the Pertronix will ruin it.
And there's this. You will need to rotate your distributor a few degrees clockwise to get back to your previous ingntion timing spot.


Reliability..I could go out this afternoon and have a problem, but baring that, it's been 5 nearly 6 years with the same distributor/Pertronix on 2 different engines without so much as a hiccup.
I do however also follow Pertronix's recommendation that you'll find in the instructions and carry points and condensor along because if the pertronix fails, it's liable to do so without warning...so I am told..

 

[TR3driver]

If for some reason you need to have the ignition Key in the "ON" position when the engine is not running, unplug the Pertronix wires from the coil.
It is possible that a constant current running thru the Pertronix will ruin it.

You beat me to it, I just came back to point that out. Pertronix even puts that in the instructions.

BTW, the Crane XR700 has been redesigned to eliminate that problem. It now shuts down the coil current when the engine is not running.

 

[Geo Hahn]

I'll add a point in favor of points...

If you do have an ignition problem with points in place they are pretty easy to check to verify operation or diagnose a fault and adjust or replace as needed.

Pertronix as I understand it is a 'black box': it either works or doesn't and can be difficult to diagnose as the cause of a problem if it fails.

 

[poolboy]

Well George, if it either works or it doesn't that should make diagnosis that much easier. It's the intermittent problems that'll run you around in circles.

 

[martx-5]

Well George, if it either works or it doesn't that should make diagnosis that much easier. It's the intermittent problems that'll run you around in circles.

Diagnosing Pertronix problems aren't so cut and dry. It's working or it's not isn't usually the way it is.

Here's a item I read about what can go wrong with your Pertronix system, or more like what is causing your Pertronix to run lousy.

 

[poolboy]

I wouldn't let this one incident discourage me from using a Pertronix.
The Author even admits he's had 8 trouble free years with how many customers using the Pertronix, until this particular customer.
Wrong Coil..not exactly the fault of the Pertronix.
Careless installation. ditto
Rivets holding the pickup to the base..no such thing. Just a post to establish the correct location on the base to which it's glued.

Are there going to be problems..no doubt, what's perfect; but percentagewise as many problems as condensor reliability, careless points installation, rubbing blocks and burned points present ?

 

[DaveGT6]

I just took the time to check the Advanced Distributor site to see what a rebuild would cost compared to a conversion....... thay have replacement breaker plate assemblies! And a bit less expensive than a conversion kit. Now, I'm still mulling all of the points brought up in response to my questions, honestly, I'd rather stay stock. I'm not the guy who's going for a show car or anything remotely close, it's just the way I typically go.
So, if the ONLY problem is a worn breaker plate, worn thru sheer use & not due to some missed problem, replacing the plate would put the ignition back into top-notch service.... with all of the pros & cons of points & condensers.
The car has almost 100k on it and if my guess is right its the original distributor. There's no way that my better half & I will wear out another plate. (She may live another 40 years but I don't know if I'll see it!)
I've learned a lot about distributors & conversions today. I think I'll sleep on this info for a few nights and then go with my pondered decision. It may even bee a good idea to contact the mechanic & confirm that no other issues were detected.
Thank you all.
It's going to be upper 80's, sunny, and only a slight chance of evening t-storms here this weekend. I think we'll be getting to know the car better.
Have a great, and safe, holiday.

 

[poolboy]

What about the shaft bushings Seems like it would be just as likly or more so to be worn than the points plate.

If you can afford it and can do without the distributor for 2 weeks, send the whole thing for Jeff to recondition..You won't regret doing it.

 

[Gliderman8]

Poolboy is right... it is money well spent to have your dizzy rebuilt. After having mine gone over by Jeff the car ran so much better.

 

[tdskip]

Well the real ticket is to have Jeff do a refresh and send it back with the Pertronix already installed. Just two wires to connect and you are off to the races.

An electronic ignition is a happy thing on these cars.

 

[DaveGT6]

An interesting twist----- We took the TR to see our granddaughter play softball yesterday. This is a 50 mile trip each way. There are all types of roads involved; in-town driving, we have to cross the Catoctin Mountains (just little hills to some of you) and no interstate driving. The car ran flawlessly! I didn't hear it miss once after the first mile or two.
I have trouble believing the miss was from the dizzy now.
I was told the car sat some but I don't know what they meant by 'some'. Maybe she just needed to stretch her legs and clear her throat. We certainly gave the car the opportunity for that to happen - I love the throaty sound of a 6 winding up!
I'm standing down on any changes to the ignition system now. If it starts acting up again I'll try to narrow down the cause. If it's the dizzy a rebuild does seem the best way to go.

 

[70herald]

I just took the time to check the Advanced Distributor site to see what a rebuild would cost compared to a conversion....... thay have replacement breaker plate assemblies! And a bit less expensive than a conversion kit.

A dizzy rebuild and electronic ignition are really two different items. The rebuild will make sure that the dizzy is mechanically in good condition, and then adjust the timing curve to make sure that it matches your engine as it is today. This will make a big difference. BOTH mechanical condition and the TIMING are INDEPENDENT of the ignition method (points or electronic) Points are more sensitive to wobble, but if the timing curve is not correct you will never get the most out of your car.
I sent my dizzy to Jeff, and put a crane xr700 on it. Yes it ran with just xr700, but having the dizzy set up properly made a very big difference.