Midget EFI: Opinions wanted

[Morris]

Yet again I find myself at on a cusp with my EFI project (pictured below).

The adapter I designed works perfectly thus far. In fact, pretty much everything fuel injection and ECU related is working perfectly. The car, on the other hand is a POS. This is my own fault for going cheap when I rebuilt the car. Many of you warned me against this, but I ignored your wisdom. Ahhh, youth!

Anyway, if I am going to continue to test and refine the fuel injection system, I must, yet again, sink more time and money into the car. My family is living on a single income presently so my wife can take care of our children until they start school. Thus, we have little disposable income for never ending car projects. It was my hope to supplement our income by designing and selling EFI kits for Midgets and other LBCs. Infact, it was my hope to create a new career for myself doing the same.

Now I am wondering... is this really worth doing? Is there even a market for affordable (relative to Moss) fuel injection systems for LBCs? I would love to know your thoughts and opinions on this.

 

[racingenglishcars]

Yes.
Though I'm a mechanical engineer and work in the engine control system development department, and work closely with our computer hardware development department, I really don't have time to design stuff for my own car.
https://www.mandiesel.com/article_001967.html

Mine is of course a 5 port head, but with single point injection that shouldn't matter.

Many people sell kits, like Megasquirt, but if someone got it assembled into an installation-only package, specifically designed for the lbc (BMC A & B-series, TR4-6) it would be a great help to many people.

 

[MG_Midget_74]

I think what you are doing is wonderful, in our society there are to many negative people, who say it will never sell or something along those lines. I understand your situation, I am in it also. Before mortgaging you kids' future have you made contact with Moss or VB, to try and determine the market size? I mean Moss sells such a kit for B's, if they are not doing well with that one, why would a Spridget version do any better? I am simply suggestion research before giving up. The research might show it's a huge idea and you could be posting from the beach.

Good luck

 

[billspit]

Depending on what the kit would cost, I think you have a very viable cottage business. I would be interested in one if it would fit a Spitfire. Whatever you do, make it adaptable to all the LBCs.

 

[Westfield_XI]

NO! this market is shrinking as the cars rust and the owners who still remember them from the day pass away. The one's left like here are either originality obsessed restorers or trying to keep an LBC running with no money and used parts. Neither will be interested in EFI, just add up how many members are signed up here, how many of that total sound serious enough to spend real money for your product: 1/2 of a % at most?

Do your projects because of the personal satisfaction, not for profit......You will only end up dissappointed. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Glen_B]

I admire and respect your efforts and as you know I'm racing down the same road myself. To have a half chance of reaching a big enough market, it should be adaptable to the A-series engine. Then you can market to all the Morris Minors as well. There are many Morris' on the road, and they tend to be drivers.
My system has cost about $600 so far, and that would be proven a bit of a lie if I had kept accurate records. (Marriage has taught me not to do that). Though my desire is driven by curiosity and the needs of the turbo, I bet plenty of drivers would like to be able to start their car on the first crank whatever the weather, drive away without sputtering even while still cold, have a great idle, perfect mixture control at all throttle settings and altitudes, better mileage and better acceleration. No points to set or carbs to synch/tune.
For me, the biggest drawback is going to be the price. If I were to put what I've done in a box and sell it to someone else, I'd charge about $1K and not make a penny.

Glen Byrns

 

[racingenglishcars]

People are getting used to cars that start every time and run smoothly, and with automatic idle control. That can't easily be done with carbs. The owners of these cars are generally becoming wealthier. That's why Moss offers this stuff now.

In the 80's and 90's, who would have thought that one could buy repair panels and all structural panels for Bugeyes, from at least 3 different manufacturers, at competitive prices? Who would have thought that one could buy at least three different superchargers for these now? Who would have thought one could buy aluminium heads, 8 & 16 valve twin cam heads, aluminium body panels etc. The list goes on. I tell you, I'm amazed at the parts available now that never were before.

Is the market shrinking for lbcs and a-series in particular? Maybe, but those remaining certainly do spend a lot of money on them.

In 15 years, the market may or may not be there, but now is the time to make money on this system.

 

[Westfield_XI]

Is the market shrinking for lbcs and a-series in particular? Maybe, but those remaining certainly do spend a lot of money on them.

In 15 years, the market may or may not be there, but now is the time to make money on this system.

I guess it depends if the market turns to restoration or "restification" instead. I too plan to play around with EFI on the A-series in my Westfield someday, for all the reasons mentioned above. But then again, I am not bound by originality since I am building a modern replica anyway. Other folks with "real" cars may choose differently and go for originality. Too bad you can't use an SU as a throttle body!!!

 

[Morris]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Too bad you can't use an SU as a throttle body!!![/QUOTE]

That is exactly what I intend to do! My car came with a Zenith Stromberg 150, and that is what I am using for my throttle body. I need only move two holes, and my injection adapter will work with an HS4 or HIF4. I need only move two holes and make the bore a bit larger and it will work with an HS6.

I appreciate all of the positive feedback. But I am also hoping to hear from some more devil's advocates.

In the meantime, give me your thoughts on this: As I am a small time operator with no capital, I can make my kits much cheaper if I do not include items that are readily and affordablely available to the end user. For example, fuel lines, clamps and fuel pumps can all be purchased from local sources and eBay for much less than I can sell them. So basically, a kit will include everything that needs to be custom fabricated for the kit, but the end user will be responsible for providing a few items. Does this sound like a winning strategy, or do you think most end users would prefer to pay more and open a box that has everything they need to complete the job?

 

[Westfield_XI]

I think that your buyers will be tinkerers and will prefer to source as much as possible themselves. Much like Megasquirt.....What if you just made an add-on or plug-in for Megasquirt using your modified SU's and software. Even better if it looks nearly stock when you are done.

 

[Baz]

D.A. Here.
I will be the first to try something that will make my carb tuning idle easier and more stable, therefore I think I consider myself someone who would seriously look at this.
However, just like anything else, cost will determine if it's feasible.
If it's cheaper for me to buy a new set of SU's or send them off to get rebuilt and tuned by an expert, then that's what I'd do.
I guess what I'm saying is, is it has to be competitive with alternatives to be viable.
I've followed this as much as anyone Morris, and I think what you're doing is awesome and epitomizes user perfection of an already good product. I don't understand half of it, but it's been an education to read.
I don't care if my car is original, I don't care what it's worth....
I care if it starts and runs with no bother so I can enjoy it. If you have something that I can use without breaking the bank, I'm in.
Good luck.

 

[Morris]

That's the rub, Baz. Price. I think the cheapest I can make this kit is $1000.00. And I am not even sure I can meet that price. I have spent many long nights brain storming ways to make this cheaper. And I have come up with some pretty good ideas, too. But I don't have the connections or buying power to get cheap equipment.

It is my hope that fuel economy and air quality concerns will eventually make fuel injection a viable alternative to the economy of carbs... but right now I would have to say that getting your carbs built by a real pro like Hap or Joe Curto is a better deal.

However, one thing that programmable EFI DOES have over carbs is versatility. For example, if you were to change out your cam, you would have to re-jet your carbs. This can be a long and frustrating process. With Megasquirt, you could put in a new cam, plug in your lap top, take her for a couple of turns around the block and pretty much be ready to roll. It's pretty cool.

Another neat feature of programmable EFI coupled with a wideband O2 sensor is that you can tune for economy AND performance. With carbs it's usually one, the other or an unsatisfying balance of the two.

 

[1965_MGB]

Morris, I must applaud what you are doing with the development of the EFI system. I think it would be a great thing if you could design a kit that you could install, turn the key and down the road you go.

I am not sure what the market would be, but if you look at the worldwide market, not just the North American market, it may be a viable thing to pursue. There are a number of us who like to tinker with things, but when it comes to computer controlled devices, I (personally) would rather tinker with my SU carbs.

Don't give up just yet, but do some market research, and perhaps another company will offer you a big check to buy your design.

 

[Baz]

Indeed, and I'm still interested, not for the Midget but for the BGT.
That lump is still way cheaper than a new set of carbs or a supercharger and has advantages more than you mentioned.
Oh, and I'm the kind of guy that likes EVERYTHING in a kit!

 

[racingenglishcars]

Too bad you can't use an SU as a throttle body!!!

I'm sure you've seen this before, but just for grins.
I throughly expect to use something like this on my car at some point after it's up and running.

 

[jlaird]

My word, that's wild.