TR6 Anyone parting out a TR6?

[Tinster]

If anyone knows of a TR6 being taken apart,
I would be real interested in purchasing the entire
front suspension system, without the brakes and
tires/wheels, etc. I do need both front wheel hubs.

Crypty needs a whole new front syspension and the Boss says
there is no budget to purchase all those parts new from the
big three.

I'll be gone ten days so no hurry on this one. You can PM me
and I'll see them when we return.

thanks as always,

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wall.gif

dale

 

[tdskip]

I'll take any good front fenders...

 

[DNK]

Dale, Why??? I didn't think yours was bad. Now don't take it apart just for the sake of doing it. Fix the rear brakes and enjoy for awhile. I know of what I speak. Took mine apart 7 years ago and still haven't driven it yet. Now I wish I hadn't gone there. I wish I would have driven between thing to tinker with.
Don't make my mistake.
Enjoy it now that it is running and fix those brakes. Very easy.
Don

 

[Geo Hahn]

The following was posted on the Triumph list last night... no idea if it is of any use since it will require a Michigan connection, but I'll pass it along just in case...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]IF you are looking for TR6 parts in the Detroit area, there is a rusty 70 TR6 at Parts Galore on 8 Mi across from Groesbeck Hwy. THis is a pick & pull yard (one of the few that I know of in SE Michigan). WHile most of the cars tend to be turned over in 3 to 6 weeks, the old car stuff tends to hang around a bit longer.

Car is quite complete but the body is shot. Non OD trans, wire wheels, with what appears to be near perfect bumpers (I saw a pencil dia ding in the front bumper and nothing in the rear (but then again I did not wipe the dust off the bumpers). THe bumpers have the AMCO style over riders on them. The surface of the overriders is more rust than chrome. THe car is blue in color and is in the old car section way in back of the yard (1/4 mile walk).
[/QUOTE]

 

[swift6]

Dale,

Why do you need all new/used parts for the front suspension? I know the Pedro bug has bit you hard but the front suspension does not have the weakness of the rear suspension. There are no aluminum parts where the threads can strip. Several things would have to fail simultaneously for the wheel to come off. Things that are extremely unlikely to fail by themselves in the first place. Though like I told you in an email, it would be a different story if you were running wire wheels.

If you completely disassemble the front suspension, clean it up, paint it, install new bushings and bearings, possibly a new trunnion. Your good to go.

Unless there is damage to these pieces, such as if they are bent or been allowed to run for an extended period of time with disintegrated bushings, there is no need to replace them. Any such symptoms would have made themselves known with even short drives over 40 mph. By way of a lot of vibration, wandering, excessive play etc...

I am convinced something happened to the rear end of Cryptie at one point (most likely pre-Pedro). Something that damaged the original trailing arm and part of the rear frame. It does explain the poorly refurbed and later trailing arm that was there as well as that odd piece of angle iron on the rear frame. Something either hit the car and damaged it or the back end was slammed sideways into a curb or something equally unwilling to move.

If you insist on wanting different parts, to excise the possibility of Pedro cooties, I know a local shop has a couple sets of front suspension pieces. I know because I stripped the TR6's they came off of. I can ask him what he might want for them if you would like.

 

[Brosky]

Dale,

I think that you have just entered the "overkill mode" on this project. JMHO.

 

[TR6oldtimer]

Dale,
Let me see. You want a used, parted out front end for your car because you cannot afford new parts to replace what? Everything, or just bad parts, then I ask what bad parts? Also, how will you know if the used parts are any better then what you have?

Save your money for what is really needed.

So before you go completely off the deep end on this, do some simple checks to determine what needs to be done. If you do not know how to check the front end, and help from members here do not work for you, then take the car to a front end alignment shop for a check up. Shouldn't cost more then one hour shop time.

You can start to get some help by posting pictures of your front suspension.

 

[Tinster]

Maybe so Paul but after the wheel incident...
I think it's better to be safe than dead.

The deeper I get into this car, the more apparent it
becomes there is almost no component or part that has
not been jerry rigged with Elmer's glue, coathangers
or duct tape.

Look on the plus side! My confidence level in this car,
as being safe to drive, has now reached zero. I used to
worry about the car breaking down. Now I worry about
the car killing me and my wife.

From here forward, every new or refurbished part that
I install with my own hands, with new fasteners, will
serve to increase my confidence level in this car from
zero to streetable.

That scared the daylights out of me when the wheel seperated
from the car at 40 mph in a curve.

I'll keep on fixing the DPO Pedro time bombs when I return
from crusin'. This auto story is far from concluded.

By the time David and Annie arrive this fall, DPO Pedro's
POS parts car will be streetable and safe enough for David
to drive Annie along the beach highway.

PS: The engine started ever so easily this morning, ran for
1/2 hour and shut down without a burb.

d /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif

 

[TR4nut]

Dale-

I agree with the others on this one Dale- the only reason to look for used parts is after you've determined you need them. And this opinion is coming from a confessed junk yard junkie who can't stay away from every rusty bit that comes my way.

If you want to reassure yourself about the front end great, but put it up on jacks then and start checking things out. I'm 99% sure that any part you might need should be new, not used on that front end.

My 2 cents.
Randy

 

[DNK]

You should have some sort of idea of how the front end is. You have been driving it. Did David drive it? If he did and didn't notice anything it is probably ok to start a slow rebuild. Enjoy it for awhile.

 

[Guest]

Just check the wheel bearings.

If they are ok, the front wheels and car will stay together.

Jack it up and check for slop by rocking the wheel top to bottom (put your hands at 6 and 12 o clock on the tire while the wheel is in the air). You'll feel it moving if it is loose.

If you find some, then check the rest of the front end out.

If not then take the wheel off and check all the bolts are tight. In comparison with the rear, it is massively over engineered, and unlikely to be a problem. You for sure won't lose a wheel unless you forget to retighten the lugnuts after you do the stuff above...

Did I miss a post? Have you bled the rears yet?

 

[BritBox]

Why trade your used parts for someone else's used parts?

A reasonable compromise would be to do a "routine" front end rebuild and while the parts are off, take them to a decent machine shop. Have them cleaned and checked for cracks, paint them, and reinstall. While the parts are off you can examine the suspension attachment points on the chassis. New reinforcement plates are cheap and available if you need to fix that area. Put everything together with good quality hardware, align the front end, and go look for some potholes. You'll be fine.

 

[Tinster]

Alan,

I buggered up the rear brakes trying to bleed them. All new
rear brake components arriving from TRF after we return.
I'll have the car taken to Western Auto for installation.

I had to take a peek at the one side of front end.


Yes, the passenger front wheel "thunks" at 6 and 12.
The wheel moves maybe 1/4" out of vertical plane.
Why am I not surprised? A few quick photos. It looks
like the Crypt Car will come off jacks, have the brakes
installed, drive 2 miles home and then back on jacks.
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wall.gif

 

[Aldwyn]

Dale, your front end looks better then mine. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif And all I need (IMHO) are new bushings!

 

[TR6oldtimer]

Dale,
Looks like most TR6 front ends I have seen. From here, it does not look like Pedro had his hands in it. I agree with the previous post, in that probably all you need is a bush kit (urethane from TRF ~$100 does both sides).

With the suspension loaded, the thunk you felt at 6 and 12 is from the wheel bearings. These are also available from TRF as a kit $77.50 per side. A good price.

These items would be my suggestion to get you started. In all likelihood, this is all you will need. Except perhaps the upper ball joint.

 

[DNK]

I say pull the cotter pin, give it a 1/4 to a 1/2 turn new pin and away you go.

 

[BOXoROCKS]

lots of good advice here,..one of your clunks might be because the upper arm bushing is blown out.Tie rod end looks OK.Looks like a new bolt thru the trunnion.A short life span is assured using that factory jack, but your biggest worry is the orange painted caliper,the chevy guys are gonna steal it.

 

[bobh]

Dale,
The movement you see combined with the center picture indicate that you have a bad front wheel bearing. Did you remove the grease cap? Or was it missing when you bought the car? There is a possibility that your hub is damaged. But I would wait until you remove the hub and remove the bearings to make that determination.
Other than the missing cap and the subsequent spread of grease your suspension looks very good. I exected to see flaking rust, broken bolts, dead cats...
To address the questions in your pictures;
The first picture is one side of the lower A frame. One end connects to the frame. There is a hole in the end of the frame where the bushing is located. The left arrow in the second picture is pointing to the bushing. There is one on the forward part of thr A frame as well as the one on the rear that is visible in the picture. When you read about poly bushings on the lower a frame that's them.

The other end of the A frame is bolted to the trunnion. You can see the bolt in the last picture directly above the word "by".

Again in the second picture the right arrow is pointing to the upper A Frame. Like the lowers this rides on a bushing on the chassis end. On the other end is the ball joint. That's the piece with the grease fitting

You are pointing to a tie rod end in the last picture. It looks like it needs grease. And possibly replacement.

That's a tidy installation on the sway bar link.

An overall description of the suspension you photographed is something like this;
The upper and lower A frames (or A Arms as they are called) attach to the chassis. So yes they ultimately secure the wheel to the car. The wide end of the A frames ride on bushings which allow the suspension and wheel to move up and down.
The narrow end of the lower A frame bolts through the trunnion. The trunnion is attached to a vertical link. The vertical link rotates in the trunnion allowing the wheel to turn right and left. the vertical link is the anchor point for the axle. Or stub axle in this case.
The stub axle passes through the hub and has a machined taper to mate to the bearings. That big greasey nut in the center of the third picture is threaded onto the stub axle. That nut holds the hub, which of course holds the wheel.
The wide end of the upper A frame mounts to the chassis like the lower. It also has bushings. The narrow end of the upper A frame bolts to the Ball joint. The ball joint allows rotation in multiple axis. Inside it's basically a ball in a socket. The vertical link is also attached to the ball joint. It attaches to the shaft coming out of the bottom of the ball joint. This shaft has the ball on the end. The square housing that the upper A frame pieces bolt to is the socket part of the ball joint.
The multi axis rotation of the ball joint handles the changing angles as the suspension moves up and down and you turn the wheel to steer.
The Tie rod end is basically another ball joint. The shaft with the bellows in the background is part of the steering rack. It pushes or pulls the tierod end to turn the tires.
If I haven't bored you to tears... All of the bushings wear. Ball joints and tierod ends wear. Faster if they are not lubricated periodically. (many modern parts are permanently lubricated) Wheel bearings wear. All of this is normal. All of these parts are available. And not too hard to replace. With the possible exception of a bad hub you don't need to buy anything more than the usual replacement parts required to overhaul your front suspension.

 

[RonMacPherson]

Okay, you've gotten some pretty good suggestions from some of the others. I'm gonna throw my two cents in.

When you rocked the wheel did you have someone look behind the wheel to see where the play was? Sometimes trunnions will wear, but yours looks in very reasonable shape. Your pictures of the bushings show them to be in good condition. So, I wouldn't worry about replacing them for awhile.
When you put the wheel back on does it rock side to side?, indicative of tie rod end freeplay. could be outer or inner. The inner is under the boot on the steering rack. Mostly the outers wear long before the inners.

I didn't see a greasecap for the wheel bearing in your picture. That is an important protective device to acquire.

AGAIN and AGAIN When you take the hub off(unbolt the two bolts mounting the caliper to the front spindle assy., pry the caliper up and hang it with a large tierap or something to keep from stressing the brake hose, remove the cotter pin, unscrew the nut and rock the hub, the outer wheel bearing will come off in your hand and then you can pull the hub off of the spindle.)
The old seal, if it's felt, will have the inner part stuck on the hub. wipe the spindle down to make sure there are no gouges, or ridged depressions worn in it.
Take the old bearings and seal to a bearing supply house and get replacement bearings. I cannot stress this enough!
Get modern bearings! They are made to closer tolerances, they have more rollers(If I remember the outer race only has somethin like 4 or 5) So the load is spread out. You can always take the hub down to your friendly Western Auto and they can replace the bearing inner races if you feel insecure about that part. Have them pack the bearings so that when you put it back together you have plenty of grease on the bearings and about two tablespoons of grease in the space in the hub between the bearings. The updated seal will be either National or Chicago Rawhide(rubber) and will tap into the back of the hub. When you install the hub back on the spindle, tighten the nut up as you turn the hub slowly, to seat the bearings. You will tighten the hub up until it almost stops or completely stops(depending on how the fit on the spindle is) Then back it off to the first notch to fit a new cotter pin in.
Put the grease bearing cap on(with a little grease in it) and the caliper back on, after the caliper on pump the brake pedal a couple of times. Bolt the wheel on and drive it.

If you haven't visited them you might try going to the "How Stuff Works" website, automotive and search for front wheel bearings. It might be helpful.

Later as your confidence grows(or folks come visit you during the summer) you can venture into bushing/shock replacement. But the pictures you posted show that is NOT necessary at this time.

Have fun in Aruba!

 

[Brosky]

Great post Ron! Dale, it's solid advice. Give it some thought before you waste time and money on something that you don't really need. And buying used will only get you parts like the trailing arm that I sent to you. It fixed your problem, but essentially needed studs and bushings. That's all your going to get from a 30 year old used parts collection.

I have a nearly complete front end that I've been collecting, piece by piece from ebay. Every piece needs to be rebuilt, which I planned to do when I had everything. I wanted to take it all apart, have it blasted and powder coated and install all new bushings. The IF, repeat IF, I ever decided to do my front end, I wouldn't have any down time waiting for parts. But that's a long time away as far as I'm concerned, if it happens at all.