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Wood Bow to Window Gap

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memphis

memphis

Jedi Hopeful
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The gap between the top frame wood bows on the passenger side is much larger than on the drivers side, especially on the smaller vertical bow.

Has anyone else noticed this? Is this normal? Did they use shims to push the wood closer to the glass to aid in the seal?

Thanks in advance for your comments, advice.

Bob
 
Shims are sometimes used where the top frame attaches to body. This can have the effect of lowering the wood bows so that they close the gap at the top of the glass. That said, sometimes they just don't fit very well just like the rest of the body parts on a Healey.
 
Seems Bob and I share the same situation. Drivers side curved wood near the bottom comes pretty close to meeting the edge of the glass. Not so much on the passenger side.

The top frame mounting plate does not have much room to move front to back or side to side. So it seems that placing something (shims, washers) between the frame and wood needs to be done to bring it out.

What did they do at the factory to solve this alignment situation?

1st photo shows how close the driver gap side is.
2nd photo show the gap on the passenger side.
3rd shows the drivers side top wood comes out far enough.
4th shows the passenger side top wood comes out far enough.

The wood over the window comes out far enough, but the curved wood side near the bottom does not.

Cheers,
Roger
 
Shims:

IMG_3351.sized.jpg


IMG_3352.sized.jpg
 
Despite shims at the frame mount location, in order to really get somewhat close to a seal against my windows, I ended up using shims in various places on the back side of the wood pieces. I just used generic stainless washers... put some sticky goo on them so they'd stay in place, stuck them to the back side of the wood and then installed the screws. You can't see the shims, and I've now got relatively adequate rain protection. On the driver's side (I think), I used a series of stacked washers... first none, then 1, then 2, etc. because I needed to actually tilt the wood outward in back but not in front. On the passenger side, I think I moved the whole piece out... both on top and at the back of the window.

Worked great. You can't really tell I did it, and it looks much better now too. I actually wasn't afraid to get caught in the rain a few weeks ago.

~Bob
 
:yesnod: Shims work but if you really need to close a gap, like I did, I just kept bending the top frame bows until I got a reasonable fit. I even shimmed and moved the windshield to get all to fit. The frame bows bend pretty easy, it's easier to have a helper. Of course I did this before I installed the interior.
 
Looking at Randy's pics of the shims, it looks like he has 2 shims at the rear of the left side. Maybe this causes the entire frame to shift towards the right when tightened down, thus closing the gap at the right side wood to glass gap?

Or we could do what Johny suggests and bend the frame?

What did the factory do? Thats the real answer... How did they solve the issue. I cant imagine that they would let the car leave the factory with large gaps. It rains in England all the time... They would not have allowed for large gaps.....

Bob
 
Being the frame can not be moved more to the outside of the car because of the restriction of the mounting plate, it comes down to adding spacers behind the wood or making the wood thicker. Those who know me know I do not take the easy route.

Example, the main bow did not have a constant smooth arc. Let me at it! (I'm a PDR guy I told him). I am working with the shop and learning a lot about how tops get installed. It's all about the fit of the frame. Lots of tweaking rewards a great fit. The shop owner is meticulous and I'm a perfectionists. What a team!
 
Hi Roger,

That looks perfect!!! Did you tapper the wood piece you added? Looks thicker on the bottom than the top?

Maybe you can make extras up and sell them to others like me who share in this right side gap issue.?

Great job!

Regards,
Bob
 
Memphis, the factory solution, I'm told, is the same as Johnny's solution. Tweak the frame rails. People that know how to do this know exactly what area to tweak to get the most movement at the window with the least amount of tweaking.
 
Bill, I'm not sure the factory bent the frame for this situation. I asked my British mechanic who has been working on british cars for over 40 years about this. His thoughts were for this situation they made adjustments with the wood.

The frame rails have different thickness' and one of the thickest parts is right at the mounting plate. And it is that rail, as shown in my photos below, is one thick piece. That piece of metal on my frame has not been bent though it's life's travels. I don't think bending that, in that area down at the bottom of the wood would be the correct thing to do. If done, it may throw off some other areas, like the large top bow rail which is attached to it. That may affect the other side. Or the pin and hinged riveted rails attached to it on that side or the other. Bending that rail may lead to an open can of worms.

I agree, that bending some parts of the structure may have been done at the factory, or later in the cars life, but I don't think bending it in this area, which seems like the logical place, is the answer.

Cheers,
Roger
 
memphis said:
Hi Roger,
That looks perfect!!! Did you tapper the wood piece you added? Looks thicker on the bottom than the top?
Maybe you can make extras up and sell them to others like me who share in this right side gap issue.?
Great job!
Regards,
Bob
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,
Yes, the spacer is tapered. Only the bottom of the wood did not meet the glass. So I made the wood fit the situation.

Now why would I make up a bunch of these for other folks and not let them share in all the joy that back engineering provides. You'd miss out on all the standing in one spot, arms crossed over your chest, deer in the headlight look, all while just staring for what seems like hours, at a situation trying to figure out how to resolve. I wouldn't want to take those precious moments from any of my Healey brothers or sisters.

Cheers,
Roger
 
Please refer to picture....

Is this an adjustment screw for the top frame? Anyone know if this would move the frame closer to the side (window glass) ?

Just curious to get some feedback before I start turning it and making things worse....

Thanks,
Bob
 

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It doesn't look like it to me; I think it's just a pivot point.

The "ramp" and spring being a function to get one (1) bow inside another, when the frame is folded down.

IMG_3354.sized.jpg
 
Randy Forbes said:
It doesn't look like it to me; I think it's just a pivot point.
The "ramp" and spring being a function to get one (1) bow inside another, when the frame is folded down.
Click to expand...

:iagree: Randy is spot on.

It's a pin. The slot on the end is for a screw driver to install it. You'll notice that when the frame goes up and down, the frames slides/moves in and out over the pin. That's why the pin does not have a nut on the end.
The only adjustment is how far the pin needs to be in or out for the frame travel. If screwed in too far, that end will hit the frame bar.

Good call Randy, as usual. :bow:
Roger
 
Johnny said:
Nice to see someone else using the 'monkey on a stick'. That's what I used to bend the top frame to fit.
Click to expand...

Hey Johnny,
OK, I'll come clean. I never hear that term, monkey on a stick, till last week. I should come out from under my rock more often.

When we noticed the large top rail bow was bent in two places, the upholstery guy said we need to fix that. Yup! I'm a PDR guy, let me at it! Followed with, but how? We'll use a monkey on a stick. What? I totally thought he was mess'n with me. Wow. So that's a money on a stick. Just like the name implies!

How did that name come about?

I learn something everyday. Most of it is nonsense.
Roger
 
memphis said:
Johnny, What's a monkey on a stick? Bob
Click to expand...

It's like a jack.

I'm using her to press up the low spot in the top bow. I've placed a wood brace between the top rails to keep the bow from closing up. I placed a strap on the bow to keep it from bending up. Then it was placing a 2x4 over the high spots on the bow and whacking it with a big hammer. How fun is that!
 
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