Wire Wheel Knock Offs????

[TR4]

I have new splined hubs and new knock offs that will not stay tight. I use a rubber mallet to tighten them with and wondered what is recommended. I would hate to dent those knock offs. I could go to a dead blow hammer but will use the brass metal if that is what it takes. I do remove the wheels quite a bit to work on cleaning and such which brings up another note. I did put a little grease on the hub threads before hammering on the knock offs. Is that the culprit? This is a simple newbie question but all advise is appreciated.

Thanks,
Phil

 

[LastDeadLast]

What's more important? Your life or a few scratches on a knock-off? What you're doing is pretty dangerous. I think originally, the cars came with lead or copper hammers... you need to be pounding those things pretty tight with the wheel off the ground.

Moss does sell a protector for the two-winged knock-offs at : https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=37174

Please don't use a rubber mallet! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

 

[Andy Blackley]

A plastic coated dead blow hammer should do the trick without marring the chrome. Or buy one of them fancy wooden do hickies sold by Moss etc. that fits over the KO, and hammer on that instead.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Can't imagine a rubber mallet can get them tight but there are alternatives that will work w/o marring the ears.

I use a dead-blow (3# I think) to hit a length of wood placed against the ear. I use a piece of oak about 1" square and 8" long. Have also used pine 2x2s of similar length though they will split after a dozen or so uses. The dead-blow keeps you from having the hammer ricochet ito the wing.

The key to this method is to not try to 'do' or 'undo' with one or two mighty whangs... a series of good taps will tighten it up just fine, same for removal.

You don't need to get them really really tight as they will snug up as you drive (provided you have the hubs mounted on the correct side of the car). I probably only tighten them a quarter inch or so beyond the point of hand-tightened.

Rereading your post I see: "knock offs that will not stay tight" which makes ask -- are you sure you have the lefthand hubs and righthand hubs on the respective sides of the car?

Grease (or antisieze) on the threads may be overkill since those eared knock-offs will never rust, but I don't think that is causing your problem.

 

[Andrew Mace]

One other thought: are the wheels seating properly to begin with? Again, at risk of stating the obvious, was the car possibly converted from disc to wire wheels without the wheel studs being shortened and/or without the proper nuts used to hold the adaptors on? Either could possibly prevent a wheel from seating fully. Just a thought.

 

[Keoke]

Hi All, Most of the better wire wheel practioners sell a soft non marking lead knock off hammer and recommend its use no body using them??---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Dave Russell]

[ QUOTE ]

You don't need to get them really really tight as they will snug up as you drive (provided you have the hubs mounted on the correct side of the car). I probably only tighten them a quarter inch or so beyond the point of hand-tightened.

Rereading your post I see: "knock offs that will not stay tight" which makes ask -- are you sure you have the lefthand hubs and righthand hubs on the respective sides of the car?

[/ QUOTE ]
A very good point - the hubs on the LH side of the car should tighten clockwise. The ones on the RH side should tighten counter clockwise. If they are on the wrong sides, they will "self undo" quickly.
D

 

[TR4]

Knock offs are on the proper side and the car did come with wire wheels according to the British Heritage Certificate. I did go out and use the piece of wood trick with a sledge and the knock offs tightened up another quarter inch more so my problem seems to be with my use of the rubber mallet. I'll be off to the hardware for the dead blow hammer. Thanks for the tip. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[Deleted member 451]

I tighten mine hand tight and then put the wood protector on them and use it as a wrench to tighten them with my hands again then just one lite tap with a hammer. After driving a mile or two I have to really whack them to get them off. If yours are coming loose while driving, you have a real problem. I think I would clean the greese off the threads to start and check for good seating. Make sure you dont have more than one thread above the nuts on your adapters. Check them by putting masking tape over the studs then put the wheels on. If the tape is cut you dont have enough clearence. Also if the wheels have been over tightened the center hub of the wheel will "flair" at the rear which results in inncorect clearences and the spinners reaching the end of their travel before locking the wheel.
Good Luck

 

[Adrio]

It looks like you might have soved it, but in case not I have one more thing to add. As others have said, the right and left side have different adaptors; also the studs must be the shorter ones for the knok offs. One more thing to look for is the nuts that hold the adaptors on, they are tapered at both sides (both the side that goes against the adaptor and the side away from the car). The outside taper is needed so that the wire wheel has clearance.

I sold a set of adaptors and wheels to a fellow back in 1981 (wish I had them now) and he cam back to me with the exact problem you describe. We parked his TR3 beside my parts car (that the wheels and adaptors came from) and started to look at the two cars to see if we saw any differences. Fortunately the old nuts were still on the parts car and we noticed the nuts (and the studs) were the only difference.

Good luck, but more then that be carefull. Having a wheel come off at speed is never a good thing.

 

[John Loftus]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi All, Most of the better wire wheel practioners sell a soft non marking lead knock off hammer and recommend its use no body using them??---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Lead hammers work great except they self-destroy with use. After awhile the head turns into a mushroom shape and you need to buy a new one from the wire wheel dealers (no wonder they recommend them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif. I remember seeing a casting mold that lets you heat the lead and reform the head of the hammer but haven't tried that. I switched to a 3lb plastic lead shot hammer. Seems to work great and is handy for other jobs requiring persuasion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif

Cheers,
John

 

[jsneddon]

What about the copper/brass hammers? Mine is 40+ years old and a little mushroomed on the end but it still works like a charm and never marks my ears. I think the old man picked it up when he had his MGA coupe in the 60's. Somehow it found it's way into my trunk. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[kindofblue]

I would not recommend greasing the threads. I am not sure about knockoffs, but every car manufacturer I have worked for warns against using grease on lug nut threads. I have never met a competent mechanic who does this. Over greasing of threads (on any fastener or stud) will prevent the proper torque from being applied.

 

[LastDeadLast]

You don't grease the threads, however you do grease the splines. The method I was taught was to smear some grease on the splines, take the wheel off, wipe the excess off with a towel, then re-mount the wheel and tighten the knock-off as much as you can with the tire off the ground, then lower the wheel and re-tighten. You really don't want grease on the threads for the reasons above.