TR2/3/3A Windshield stanchions on a TR3b - guide plates??

[kstanley44]

Hi all,
Some may remember I started a frame off restoration of a 62 TR3b (TSF 98) back in March. Actually I have been accused of a destruction rather than a restoration since all I have done so far is take it mostly apart!! But it is time to start the restoration process, and hopefully have some progress to share and of course have a ton of questions to ask.

First question: When taking off the windshield I did not have any guide plates under the stanchions. The stanchions were in direct contact with the scuttle. I understand there have been 4 or so different stanchions. Mine are definitely not the dzus type. But I do have a groove on the back side of the stanchion.

Should there be a guide plate behind the stanchion?
If so what purpose does it have since it would still be only attached by the two chrome slot head bolts that attach the stanchion to the scuttle?
Would a guide plate provide some gap to prevent direct stanchion-scuttle contact, and hence direct contact with paint?
If I should needs guide plates where might I find some?

Hopefully the pictures help some. Thanks for your help,
Kerry

 

[TR3driver]

Unfortunately, I believe those stanchions are not designed to be used with base plates. On the earlier ones with the base plates, the groove opens at the back so the stanchion can slide off instead of being spread.

However, I was under the impression that those were only used for a relatively short time after the Dzus buttons were deleted. A 3B I think should have the later style without the groove. In any case, you might try sourcing a set of the style with a much smaller opening (so more metal is in contact with the car).

This photo was supplied by Martx-5 on this forum, hopefully he won't mind me re-posting it here. (If he does, I will take it down.)


Also, I believe that other groove should have some sort of fibrous material in it (not sure what the original was) that would help reduce the tendency to vibrate side to side (which I think is what caused most of that damage). Even just a length of suitable diameter fuel line would help, IMO (tho solid rubber or a good hard felt might be better).

 

[CJD]

Hey Kerry,

Those look like the correct later style stanchions. Several of us have crafted thin pads from rubber or cork gasket material to help prevent marring the finish. It helps, but the later style will always leave a mark on the scuttle.

 

[TR3driver]

Hey Kerry,

Those look like the correct later style stanchions.

So, when do you think the other styles, with metal around the bolt holes, were used?

Seems very odd that they would quit using the early casting, make new molds, and then go back to using the early casting. (without the extra machining step to open up the slot)

 

[martx-5]

So, when do you think the other styles, with metal around the bolt holes, were used?

Seems very odd that they would quit using the early casting, make new molds, and then go back to using the early casting. (without the extra machining step to open up the slot)

My thoughts also. It seems to me that one of the later styles shown in the bottom two stanchions of the photo would show up on an early 3B. Maybe a real late TCF 3B would have some scrounged parts in it, but it does seem odd to have that style on so late of a car. Maybe Triumph lost or damaged the later style molds and had to go back to the earlier style.

 

[TomMull]

My car, TR3A TS 73117 came with the early stanchions, sans guides. No idea why and I don't think my car was particularly unique. (They did do some damage to the scuttle.)
Tom

 

[sp53]

They look like the later correct ones to me also. The Duzs ones have a bigger slot. I have found the later windshields fit very tight. Once I cut these very nice little gaskets, but could not use them because the area was too tight already, and the car should no pervious damage. I had to hang the windshield with the upper frame screws lose then tighten them down after I got the 4 main screws started, so perhaps they all rub. I have only done one later car frame up.

 

[kstanley44]

Thanks all for the feedback. I had seen the picture Randall posted and also would have expected the later stanchion on a 3B. Looks like insuring a tight connection to minimize any vibration may be the best approach to protect scuttle paint. What about filling the groove with a rubber insert that is just barely thicker than the groove depth to act as a buffer between the stanchion and scuttle?? Maybe too loose.
Kerry
62 TR3b under restoration

 

[CJD]

Those still look like the later stanchions to me.

Think about it....the first year they removed the bracket they would have done all they could to make the stanchions fit the scuttle...i.e. plenty of metal. Then, by the TR3B, as with all production parts, they removed brass from the stanchion to save weight and therefore money...or to prevent the bolts from deforming the center inward. Filling the groove will not help, as the leverage is placed at the edges, thus another reason they removed the center material from the later designs.

By the way, I have all the types. Glad to send you a mid-design if you like. I personally don't see the advantage to either. When they break, they break up at the lower windscreen, not in the area we are discussing. If you are interested in removing your windscreen regularly, then a conversion to the early bracket type stanchion would be a plus. I see no way to keep any of the later types from marring the paint.

 

[CJD]

So, when do you think the other styles, with metal around the bolt holes, were used?

Seems very odd that they would quit using the early casting, make new molds, and then go back to using the early casting. (without the extra machining step to open up the slot)

The slots are not the same between the bracket stanchions and the later non-bracket stanchions with grooves. The bracket type slide on the bracket, and therefore the back is open. Also the slots are not the same shape.

 

[kstanley44]

Thanks for the offer John. I assumed my "grooved" stanchions were the mid-design but apparently they are the latest. I will just install them as they were when I took them off. Carefullyeaceful:

 

[DavidApp]

Just curious about my stanchions.
I notice that they are similar to the Dzeus type with the body shaped part with a register for the stanchion to slide on but there is no way of fastening them to the body except with the bolts that hold the stanchions.
Another intermediate design step?
Should I put some type of padding between the body and the body shaped part to protect the paint?

David

 

[TomMull]

Just curious about my stanchions.
I notice that they are similar to the Dzeus type with the body shaped part with a register for the stanchion to slide on but there is no way of fastening them to the body except with the bolts that hold the stanchions.
Another intermediate design step?
Should I put some type of padding between the body and the body shaped part to protect the paint?

David

View attachment 45111View attachment 45112

Yours seems to be a more reasonable set up. Those stanchions, sans plates, as on my car, do not fit the scuttle. I might suggest a quality control issue. I don't really know, of course, but ST was building an awful lot of cars around 1960.
Tom

 

[CJD]

Interesting, David. The stanchion looks like a typical bracket mounted style, but the bracket is different. It might be the missing link between the bracket mounted style and the direct scuttle mount. Or, maybe the factory used that to use up the last of the slide on stanchions??

Gotta be a story there somewhere.