TR2/3/3A Windscreen stanchion Dzus problem

[RC64]

I'm restoring a 59 TR-3A pre-60k and am in the process of installing the windscreen stanchion and guide plate. The problem I've run into has to do with the new Dzus fasteners I bought from Moss. The basic dimension is the same as the old ones, but the gap that makes the connection with the wire on the guide is too narrow. No way will it tighten up as it is. I called Moss tech support and they say that's the only part they list. No alternatives. It appears that I'm going to have to take some files to open the gap. Here's a photo to show the difference between the new one and the original. You can see that the old one was opened up, AND deformed.



I guess my question is, has anyone else had this problem, or have you heard of it? The Moss tech checked the feedback he had on this part but couldn't find any prior reports of this issue. Any suggestions other than modifying the gap?

Rick...

 

[Geo Hahn]

I got a set from Moss (some years back) and they work fine. Using a drill bit I measured mine and the opening is 7/64".

I do not secure mine to the stanchion - when I undo them I remove them completely... when the windscreen is off (like now) I just store them in a Baggie with the wipers. Having them remove completely makes it a bit easier to R&R the windscreen as before they could foul on the plate.

PS -- I held one of mine up next to the left on in your photo and it appears to be the same as your Moss part. Are you putting the spring on it before you try tightening down? I think it needs the spring.

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

The spring-wire seems far away from the plate and very shiny (mine were rather rusted). Maybe it is too far upward/bent? Or maybe the stanchion is not the proper one. There are several different stachions. Some have a small groove for the dzus to fit into the stanchion a bit farther. If you think it's hard to snap that 1/4 turn screw now, wait until you have the whole assembly on the car with fresh paint. It takes some force to make that dzuz turn 1/4 of a turn and snap into place. -Then again, you don't want it so easy that a small bump at speed causes the w/s to pop off.

 

[RC64]

I got a set from Moss (some years back) and they work fine. Using a drill bit I measured mine and the opening is 7/64".
PS -- I held one of mine up next to the left on in your photo and it appears to be the same as your Moss part. Are you putting the spring on it before you try tightening down? I think it needs the spring.

I do have the spring and was using it when I tried securing the stanchion to the guide plate. I had the spring off when I was taking some measurements and didn't think to put it back on for the photo. From your photo is looks to me that the gap at the top is a good bit wider than on mine. Ont of the box, the gap on mine was too narrow to fit over the wire without some filing on the wire to trim the diameter down a bit. I'll give you method of measuring the gap with a drill bit a try tomorrow. Neat idea...

Rick...

 

[RC64]

The spring-wire seems far away from the plate and very shiny (mine were rather rusted).

There are several different stachions. Some have a small groove for the dzus to fit into the stanchion a bit farther.
.

I was also wondering about that spacing on that wire also. But these are the guide plates that are original to this car, and the old Dzus fittings are the original ones too. You can see that they are bent up a little on the ends. With the guide plates mounted on the car I was able to secure the stanchions to the plates with the old Dzus fittings so I know that I have the right combination for this model.

The wire on the guide is shiny because I was tinkering with it to reduce the diameter ever so slightly so the new Dzus fitting would fit over it. I'm thinking that perhaps the plating on the new ones is thicker than it should be. It was suggested that I give a call to Mark Macy since he has written about differences in this area. I'll do that first thing Monday morning. If he doesn't have any solutions I'll go on the attack with some files and my Dremel.

Rick...

 

[sp53]

I would not file the wire. File the new part you got fromMoss.

 

[Geo Hahn]

I'll confess two things --

First, I did not realize there were 2 pictures posted and had only looked at the second one.

Second, I have never removed the brackets from the scuttle on my car so I do not know how that spring/wire should appear.

That said, it seems to me that the spring/wire on the backside of the plate pulls inward as you turn the Dzus, then pops back a bit as the Dzus locks in place. I wonder if the force required to do this is more than what you can get with the part on the bench? IOW, the new fastener may work fine once the plate is secured on the body. Mine definitely 'snap' into the final position when I tighten them.

 

[RC64]

I would not file the wire. File the new part you got fromMoss.

I agree. All it took was a few thousandths to get it so the Dzus would fit over the wire. I definitely don't want to reduce the diameter to the point that the strength of the wire is compromised. If it broke I'd have to replace the entire guide plate and I suspect that wouldn't be easy. They are N/A at Moss. I haven't checked elsewhere, and I hope I don't have to.

 

[RC64]

That said, it seems to me that the spring/wire on the backside of the plate pulls inward as you turn the Dzus, then pops back a bit as the Dzus locks in place.

The first photo was taken only to show the gap. I had the guide plate secured to the car when I tried attaching the stanchion so I was able to get as much pressure as possible on the Dzus given the fact that the slot in the head of the Dzus is not very deep. It wouldn't take much to bung up that slot.

Here's another shot from a slightly different angle. It's a bit fuzzy but you can see that the wire is riding pretty high against the sloped side of the Dzus. I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to get enough leverage to coax the wire under that hump with its current shape. The only option I see is to modify that slot.

 

[luke44]

Rick - it may be worthwhile to send Mark Macy an email with a link to this thread in advance of your call so he can evaluate the pictures.

It is indeed a very strange problem. You shouldn't have to be filing or drilling. It has to be a part incompatibility issues of some sort. I'm sure someone in the future would appreciate your report back when you get it sorted out. Good luck

 

[TR4nut]

Just an opinion, but I don't think its a wire thickness problem or necessarily a dzus problem - the wire looks slightly more bent outward (away from the dzus head) than the one I have on my workbench - that might be giving more tension than normal to get the fastener turned in place. One suggestion, carefully use a clamp or vice to see if you can coax the wire down slightly. Careful being the key word, you don't want to accidentally break the wire which would be a real pain to repair, nor do you want to move the wire too far and lose the tension you need to have the fastener work as designed.

 

[RC64]

Bruce...

Good idea. I'll send an e-mail with the link this evening.

Rick...

 

[RC64]

One suggestion, carefully use a clamp or vice to see if you can coax the wire down slightly. Careful being the key word, you don't want to accidentally break the wire which would be a real pain to repair,

That crossed my mind too, and I had the same concern. That wire is pretty stout. And given its design I'm not confident that it's going to give much. I'm more inclined to mess with the gaps in the Dzus because it will be easier to replace if I destroy it.

Rick...

 

[RC64]

Bruce...

I just received a call back from Mark, and as usual he was more than happy to help. He made several good points that may be of use to anyone else that runs into this problem.

He has had to deal with this issue before and was able to "carefully" coax the wire closer to the back of the guide plate. Taking a hammer to the wire didn't work well, but when he used a block of wood on it with a hammer that seemed to work better, being careful not to reduce the gap too much. He also addressed my concern about breaking the wire. He has seen some that were rusted through and needed to be replaced. And here's where he was very encouraging. He said that he has been able to get a replacement spring from Victoria British and I just confirmed that they are still available for 4.95 a pop. That's a relief because the full guide plates are not available.

We also talked about modifying the Dzus itself. His concern is that in his experience the replacement Dzus fasteners seem to be "softer". As a result, they may not take much filing to widen that gap and then when put under pressure they would break rather then bend as shown in my earlier photos of the originals. I'll let you know how this turns out as I go into attack mode.

Again, many thanks to Mark Macy. He has a great web site, with tech tips and many products that you can't find elsewhere. You can find him here...

https://www.macysgarage.com/

Rick...