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robert_ellison
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window doesn't fit top opening
- Thread starter robert_ellison
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I think you m ight have to take a look at the fit between the windshield and vent window frame to see how they are lined up and then remove the door panel and adjust the part at the most bottom. Check the window "nylon guides" too. I had a very simpilar problem that you have and it was more than one thing contributing to the misaglignment.robert_ellison said:
Patrick
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robert_ellison
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I know I'm missing those but they wouldn't make it fit any better than it does. I'm thinking it might be a result of frame sag. Any ideas?
The vent window frame is right up against the windshield frame so there is nowhere to go in that direction. I already had to adjust the window frame at bottom to get it to fit at that point.
The vent window frame is right up against the windshield frame so there is nowhere to go in that direction. I already had to adjust the window frame at bottom to get it to fit at that point.
Randy Forbes
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That would be pretty severe frame sag!
Place a jack under the middle of the chassis (board between jack & chassis) and see if the window goes into place.
I'm betting the it doesn't, because if the frame was that bad, you'd surely notice it going down the road.
Healeys are notorious for poor fitting bodywork, so it's a true credit to anyone capable of getting the panels to fit and look right. I couldn't do it with mine, and had to seek professional help (for the car; verdict's still out on whether I need professional help...).
Place a jack under the middle of the chassis (board between jack & chassis) and see if the window goes into place.
I'm betting the it doesn't, because if the frame was that bad, you'd surely notice it going down the road.
Healeys are notorious for poor fitting bodywork, so it's a true credit to anyone capable of getting the panels to fit and look right. I couldn't do it with mine, and had to seek professional help (for the car; verdict's still out on whether I need professional help...).
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If he had severe frame sag, he wouldn't be able to get the door closed...or open. Lot's of lattitude in adjustments in lining up the door glass, windshield frame and vent glass frame AND top(there's a purpose in those shims that the rear top frame mounts to!!). I did mine several years ago and had to spend a lot of time in readjusting everything several times before I got a good fit. I couldn't leave well enough alone forever and had a new frame done by Jule-Enterprises so I'm looking forward to doing it all over again...NOT!!(I might need professional help more than my Healey does)PatrickRandy Forbes said:
The big tip off....your door top chrome trim and rear bonnet chrome trim
looks to be off by 3/4 to 1 In. Either the door rear or the whole door needs
to be raised. Once the door is in alignment with the body IE front and rear
door to fender gaps even top to bottom and matching the fenders in/out you can then adjust how far up the window will go up to align with the top. I spent a lot of time with mine and with a healey it is difficult to gain perfection.
You can get a good 5 Ft. job without too much work...but after one good bump they will change.
looks to be off by 3/4 to 1 In. Either the door rear or the whole door needs
to be raised. Once the door is in alignment with the body IE front and rear
door to fender gaps even top to bottom and matching the fenders in/out you can then adjust how far up the window will go up to align with the top. I spent a lot of time with mine and with a healey it is difficult to gain perfection.
You can get a good 5 Ft. job without too much work...but after one good bump they will change.
Britishautobody
Jedi Hopeful
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Your door hinges might be shot,making your door sag. With the door opened halfway grab the bottom of the door and lift up,if you feel play/movement repair the hinges or replace them. Also door glass can usually be adjusted slightly. I agree you door needs to fit the body first, then address the glass fitment to the top etc.
John_Progess
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Robert,
You will probably never get a perfect fit. I fiddled with mine for hours and still there is a 1/16" gap at the top. If you will notice many BJ7's and BJ8's have some sort of gap at the front or back of the window. Have a good day!
John
You will probably never get a perfect fit. I fiddled with mine for hours and still there is a 1/16" gap at the top. If you will notice many BJ7's and BJ8's have some sort of gap at the front or back of the window. Have a good day!
John
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robert_ellison
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Whew, a whole lot of issues to respond to.
1) I tried jacking up the frame and the window almost clears the back weather strip aluminum channel but it also makes it impossible to latch my top. I removed the striker and pushed in on the door but the window wont get any closer than approx 1" the channel flange the weather strip attaches to. And the door is right up against the rear weather strip channel so it can't go any farther in. Also there is a gap of over an inch from the top of the glass to the top, plus the glass is not overhung by the top so water will pour in if it rains.
2) There is no play in the door hinges.
3) the door to fender gaps are even on front and rear. but the wind wing is very tight against the windshield
4) The window rolls all the way to the top.
5) 2 questions.
1) Patrick mentioned shims in the rear top frame mounts. I have no shims and wonder where they should be placed. The top doesn't need to be higher it needs to be lower.
2) are the door trim and fender trim supposed to be flush to each other? Height wise they are pretty close it's just that the door trim is 1/2-3/4" farther out than the trim on the fender
From what I see so far I don't have a clue how to make these windows fit as the top position is fixed and the door can't go in any farther without tearing everything apart and rebuilding the entire area, although there are so many interconnected issues I question whether even that would solve the problem.
I'm trying not to get completely discouraged. I thought the top was the last thing I needed to do but now it seems that the job will never be finished
Any further tips etc much appreciated..
1) I tried jacking up the frame and the window almost clears the back weather strip aluminum channel but it also makes it impossible to latch my top. I removed the striker and pushed in on the door but the window wont get any closer than approx 1" the channel flange the weather strip attaches to. And the door is right up against the rear weather strip channel so it can't go any farther in. Also there is a gap of over an inch from the top of the glass to the top, plus the glass is not overhung by the top so water will pour in if it rains.
2) There is no play in the door hinges.
3) the door to fender gaps are even on front and rear. but the wind wing is very tight against the windshield
4) The window rolls all the way to the top.
5) 2 questions.
1) Patrick mentioned shims in the rear top frame mounts. I have no shims and wonder where they should be placed. The top doesn't need to be higher it needs to be lower.
2) are the door trim and fender trim supposed to be flush to each other? Height wise they are pretty close it's just that the door trim is 1/2-3/4" farther out than the trim on the fender
From what I see so far I don't have a clue how to make these windows fit as the top position is fixed and the door can't go in any farther without tearing everything apart and rebuilding the entire area, although there are so many interconnected issues I question whether even that would solve the problem.
I'm trying not to get completely discouraged. I thought the top was the last thing I needed to do but now it seems that the job will never be finished
Any further tips etc much appreciated..
Britishautobody
Jedi Hopeful
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Without someone seeing all aspects of your car it is hard to guide you. I recommend having a well versed Healey expert go over your car,maybe get another BJ7 next to yours that you can compare and measure off of. It could be several problems leading to solving your mystery.
John_Progess
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Robert,
You will find that the windshield has a little play in the bolt holes that will probably enable you to get a better gap between the wind wing and the windshield. Loosen the bolts and see if you can rotate it forward a little. Also there is some play in the window channel where it attaches at the bottom of the door. This may enable you to move the window closer to the top. The shims for the top bow, if they exist, will be between the top and the pedestal where it bolts by the B pillar. What has changed in your car that is causing all this misalignment? Hope this helps and have a good day!
John
You will find that the windshield has a little play in the bolt holes that will probably enable you to get a better gap between the wind wing and the windshield. Loosen the bolts and see if you can rotate it forward a little. Also there is some play in the window channel where it attaches at the bottom of the door. This may enable you to move the window closer to the top. The shims for the top bow, if they exist, will be between the top and the pedestal where it bolts by the B pillar. What has changed in your car that is causing all this misalignment? Hope this helps and have a good day!
John
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robert_ellison
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I wish I knew what has created the problems. It has been so long since getting the car (1986) that I have no idea what worked properly or what didn't. The car was drivable but the floor pans,rocker panels, outriggers,and sills were rusted out so I imagine there was some water leakage.
When I cut out the outriggers, sills etc loose the car was supported on the frame, not the suspension. I had no idea what I was doing as I did the work as part of an auto-body class I was taking so there was minimal thought involved. I just cut it all out & welded it all back in. As I have put the car back together I have been able to solve most problems but the doors, and now the door glass/top + the doors is causing seemingly insoluble problems.
At first I thought that perhaps I could get new windows made that would fit the opening but after getting a quote of $600. per window I discarded that solution. I can get them to fit side to side by having them ground down but that still leaves the protrusion past the top and the 1" gap between the top of the window and the top.
I know there is an answer to this and all input is, as you know, enormously helpful, if only that it is comforting to find that one is not alone in these problems
When I cut out the outriggers, sills etc loose the car was supported on the frame, not the suspension. I had no idea what I was doing as I did the work as part of an auto-body class I was taking so there was minimal thought involved. I just cut it all out & welded it all back in. As I have put the car back together I have been able to solve most problems but the doors, and now the door glass/top + the doors is causing seemingly insoluble problems.
At first I thought that perhaps I could get new windows made that would fit the opening but after getting a quote of $600. per window I discarded that solution. I can get them to fit side to side by having them ground down but that still leaves the protrusion past the top and the 1" gap between the top of the window and the top.
I know there is an answer to this and all input is, as you know, enormously helpful, if only that it is comforting to find that one is not alone in these problems
Johnny
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You said "plus the glass is not overhung by the top so water will pour in if it rains."
Is this occuring on both sides, or just the one side? It could be that the top frame needs to be adjusted. I remember adding shims under the top frame pad and also manually bending the bows to and fro to get a good fit. Give it a try, you'll be surprised how far off it can be.
Is this occuring on both sides, or just the one side? It could be that the top frame needs to be adjusted. I remember adding shims under the top frame pad and also manually bending the bows to and fro to get a good fit. Give it a try, you'll be surprised how far off it can be.
Randy Forbes
Yoda
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The suggestion of getting a local owner with a BJ7/BJ8 and doing a side by side comparison with a tape measure, yardstick and protractor (to measure the A/B pillar angles) sounds like an excellent first step.
Spring is right around the corner**, so people will be getting their cars out and looking for places to go in them pretty soon.
**saw the first three (3) Canadian Geese in the stream behind our house today. They come back every spring to have their chicks, and they leave once they've grown enough to fly.
Spring is right around the corner**, so people will be getting their cars out and looking for places to go in them pretty soon.
**saw the first three (3) Canadian Geese in the stream behind our house today. They come back every spring to have their chicks, and they leave once they've grown enough to fly.
AUSMHLY
Yoda
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Hi Robert,
Could you post some more photos of these areas:
Vent to windscreen, door closed. Showing the entire pillar.
Top of front wing to door. (Showing the gap and how even the top/side surfaces are).
Top of rear wing to door. (Showing the gap and how even the top/side surfaces are).
Photo showing the entire top of the window and bottom edge of the top, when the window is up.
Photo taken from the rear side, showing how much the window sticks out past the top edge, if that's what's happening.
Photo showing the entire door when it is closed. To see the door fit.
Lot of pictures, but that will show us a lot.
The fame does not have any shims under it. Just confirming.
Cheers,
Roger
Could you post some more photos of these areas:
Vent to windscreen, door closed. Showing the entire pillar.
Top of front wing to door. (Showing the gap and how even the top/side surfaces are).
Top of rear wing to door. (Showing the gap and how even the top/side surfaces are).
Photo showing the entire top of the window and bottom edge of the top, when the window is up.
Photo taken from the rear side, showing how much the window sticks out past the top edge, if that's what's happening.
Photo showing the entire door when it is closed. To see the door fit.
Lot of pictures, but that will show us a lot.
The fame does not have any shims under it. Just confirming.
Cheers,
Roger
Legal Bill
Jedi Knight
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Is the vent frame up against the inside edge of the windsheild post or just the front edge of the post?