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Why Oil Filter Blows?

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Basil

Basil

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Recently, I have been having problems with the oil filters on my Nissan Pick Up coming apart. The first time it just completely came apart and leaked oil all over the place. This time, I had put a very expensive K&N filter on, thinking it would hold up better. HOwever, when I recently went to remove it, the filter housing came loose from the base instead of the base coming off the engine. Any ideas what might be causing this? (I don't think I'm putting them on too tight).

Basil
 
Basil, maybe I can help, having retired as a Nissan tech trainer. Do you have a V6 or 4 cylinder engine? In either case though, the pressure is regulated two ways. From the pump, there is a pressure regulator, and just at the filter is a relief valve.
To check the regulator, remove the large nut (external to the engine) at the bottom of the oil pump and remove the spring and plunger. Nissan gives no spring length or tension, but just say to check for smooth movement. Same procedure for the 4cyl, except that the nut is facing right of the oil pump.
The pressure relief valve is under the oil filter, looking like a big bearing ball. Push it in to see that it retracts, and that there are no cracks or breaks. If so, or if it won't move, then pry it out and tap in a new one.
Pressure at idle on either should be about 10psi, at at 3200rpm about 60psi.
If none of this solves the problem, let me know and I will contact some of the instructors to see if any issues popped up since I left.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Basil, maybe I can help, having retired as a Nissan tech trainer. Do you have a V6 or 4 cylinder engine? In either case though, the pressure is regulated two ways. From the pump, there is a pressure regulator, and just at the filter is a relief valve.
To check the regulator, remove the large nut (external to the engine) at the bottom of the oil pump and remove the spring and plunger. Nissan gives no spring length or tension, but just say to check for smooth movement. Same procedure for the 4cyl, except that the nut is facing right of the oil pump.
The pressure relief valve is under the oil filter, looking like a big bearing ball. Push it in to see that it retracts, and that there are no cracks or breaks. If so, or if it won't move, then pry it out and tap in a new one.
Pressure at idle on either should be about 10psi, at at 3200rpm about 60psi.
If none of this solves the problem, let me know and I will contact some of the instructors to see if any issues popped up since I left.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Paul! I have a 4 Cyl! I will check those two items this weekend! There has to be come reason I am blowing oil filters. Two in a row (different brands) can't be coincidence.
Will let you know what I find. Thanks again!

Basil
 
Hi Bas,
the second filter problem certainly wasn't caused by over pressure, since it didn't have any pressure in it. You twisted it off. Most "good" filters are rated at 200 to 500 psi burst strength. The K&N is rated at 550 psi. The recommendation when replacing filters is to lube the new gasket, tighten by "hand" to "just touching" plus 1/2 to 3/4 turn. I don't know how strong you are or what tool you might have used. The filters tend to get a lot harder to remove than they were to put on. Probably the gasket lube gets squeezed out or the gasket partially bonds with heat. I think it is certainly possible to put one on so tight that it comes apart during removal. The nut on the K&N is intended to be used for removal, not installation.
D
 
Basil, had a similar occurance with an older Honda civic that had sat for a couple years. Internal pressure relief valve stuck and blew a new filter right off the motor (twice). I'm a slow learner. Bob
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Bas,
the second filter problem certainly wasn't caused by over pressure, since it didn't have any pressure in it. You twisted it off. Most "good" filters are rated at 200 to 500 psi burst strength. The K&N is rated at 550 psi. The recommendation when replacing filters is to lube the new gasket, tighten by "hand" to "just touching" plus 1/2 to 3/4 turn. I don't know how strong you are or what tool you might have used. The filters tend to get a lot harder to remove than they were to put on. Probably the gasket lube gets squeezed out or the gasket partially bonds with heat. I think it is certainly possible to put one on so tight that it comes apart during removal. The nut on the K&N is intended to be used for removal, not installation.
D

[/ QUOTE ]

I know to only hand tighten and to lightly lube the seal. I doubt I put it on too tight (I have little girlie arms and the access is such on that truck as to make getting it on at all a chore). I was very surprised that the K&N came apart. I have never had this problem with any other vehicle ever.

Basil
 
[ QUOTE ]
Basil, had a similar occurance with an older Honda civic that had sat for a couple years. Internal pressure relief valve stuck and blew a new filter right off the motor (twice). I'm a slow learner. Bob

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I'm suspecting too. I'll find out for sure this weekend (if the weather holds)

Basil
 
My take on your info is that the second filter wasn't leaking, the engine was off & no oil pressure. The can just twisted off the base plate. Did I read it wrong.


I think maybe you DID get two bad filters. Maybe by the same maker, although labeled differently. There are only a few manufacturers with a lot of brand names painted on. The base is usually spot welded to the can in a few places & crimped. Very mysterious. There may be a bunch of them with bad spot welds. Chances are slim that it will happen again. Do these references indicate that both filters came from the same manufacturer? Champion - I think.

https://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html
https://www.corolland.com/oil-filters.html
D
 
[ QUOTE ]
My take on your info is that the second filter wasn't leaking, the engine was off & no oil pressure. The can just twisted off the base plate. Did I read it wrong.


I think maybe you DID get two bad filters. Maybe by the same maker, although labeled differently. There are only a few manufacturers with a lot of brand names painted on. The base is usually spot welded to the can in a few places & crimped. Very mysterious. There may be a bunch of them with bad spot welds. Chances are slim that it will happen again. Do these references indicate that both filters came from the same manufacturer? Champion - I think.

https://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html
https://www.corolland.com/oil-filters.html
D

[/ QUOTE ]

The first filter to blow was a Fram. The second one, which came apart with very little effort was a K&N.
 
That rules out the same maker theory. Fram makes Fram, Champion makes K&N. The K&N was obviously a weak can to base connection. How come you get all of the really interesting problems? I get left out. As a test, I just sacrificed a $10 K&N by really torquing it down with a wrench. Used a dry gasket. It came off so hard that it nearly stripped the hex on the end. No signs of splitting, or loosening of the can to base joint. Back to the can to base spot welds being defective on some filters. It would be interesting to ask K&N about the situation. tech@knfilters.com
D
 
I've had a Fram blow off a Ford pickup on cold startup. Stuck pressure relief valve. As the others have said, that's what I'd check first.
 
[ QUOTE ]
From the pump, there is a pressure regulator, and just at the filter is a relief valve.
To check the regulator, remove the large nut (external to the engine) at the bottom of the oil pump and remove the spring and plunger.

[/ QUOTE ]

OH BOY DO I FEEL STUPID! I think I found the problem (perhaps you can verify). A few months ago I replaced the timing chain, gears and cover (it had a hole causing water from the water pump chamber to leak into the oil sump). Anyway, one of the things I had to remove in this process was the oil pump. Well, on your suggestion, I removed the oil pressure relief valve tonight to check its movement. Seemed fine, but then I removed the valve (plunger) and compared it to the picture in the book. Well, If I'm interpreting the picture correctly I think I had the valve in BACKWARDS! Akkkk!! The valve is a little hollow thingy a bit bigger than a thimble, open on one end and with a small "nub" on the other end. In the picture it shoes the end with the little nub going into the pump body, followed by the spring and screw. (Then the spring would fit down into the hollow of the valve body). Mine had the little nub pointing OUTWARDS such that the spring rested on top of the valve. So, tell me, did I have my valve in backwards as I suspect?

Basil embarrased >> /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif << embarrased
 
Yup - you had it in backwards. As the valve moves back to relieve pressure the spring has to have somewhere to go. You would have to really scrunch the spring to even get things together. Then there would be no room for the spring to further compress to relieve pressure. I think I would also replace the spring since it is likely permanently damaged by this abuse. First time I've heard of this one. Easy to fix though.
D
 
I knew there had to be a logical reason I was blowing filters! I'll stop by the Dealer tomorrow and see if I can pick up a new spring.
 
Basil, glad you got it. Not to feel bad about it being backwards though, as we all do it. Or, as the auto journalist Pomeroy said in the early '30s, "the modern motorcar is composed of over 100,000 pieces, and if assembled with an accuracy of 99.99%, will be deliverd with 10 things wrong."
 
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