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WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pain

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Man, I have taken my Christmas vacation to do (or start) my new floorboards. This is a MAJOR project, let me tell you. First off, what makes it difficult is I want to maintain the integrity of my paint job, i.e., this is not a restoration, it is a major repair. I am about to pull the engine/tranny unit in the morning. Took me all day to break everything down to prepare for the pull. Exhausts, radiator, wiring, etc., etc. I have to change my rear oil seal, clutch and my wife's flywheel. Good time to do major maintenance such as lube all U-joints (not an easy task), change all fluids, check all fasteners, lube my drive shaft spline, etc. The bugger will be the floorboards. I removed all the factory sound deadening tar from the rear (the factory red-lead-looking primer is still intact). I want to cut out 90% of the old floorboard but leave intact the 4 braces that hold the other body parts in place. The boards around these areas are intact and solid. What if I leave these areas and just fit the new sheet metal over them, rebolt and weld around? Also, the floors next to the metal tunnel over the drive shaft are actually brazed in place, not welded (yes, I know, brazing is a form of welding). The whole board will be about the thickness of the floors higher if I leave these small areas intact. A body hammer will work it down close and after welding up, body putty underneath should keep it rust-free. An aside, I stuck a high intensity microlight into my rockers and saw surface rust. Will treat these after the welding, by cutting holes in the rear of the rockers and spraying Eastwood frame paint. Anyway, I am rambling because I am tired. My shoulders hurt. Glad I didn't just pull the tranny, I couldn't have taken the weight. I will paint all the new boards black with the same paint as above (black). All covered by carpet anyway.

Any additional pointers on fitting the floors?
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

Hi Bill....
The DPO on my TR6 replaced the drivers side floorboard exactly as you describe above, underneath you can still see the hole in the original floor.
Seems to work fine and was done solidly, I don't see any reason to cut all the old floor away before installing the new metal over it.
Good luck installing your wife's new "coaster" set.
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

Hey Bill-

We are planning a similar scheme for the crypt car.
Only the floor pans immediately under foot are
rusted away or rusting.

We are going to cut out the center sections
( in front of both seats ) and leave about a
one inch 1" width trim outer edge for welding.

I am using many small pieces of stiff paper to get
an exact template of the floor pans. Tape the small
pieces together as you go around nooks and crannies
and the body mounting bolts.

Use this template to trace and then cut a single piece
of poster board. One for each footwell.

Now trace another one but this time ink a line 1/2"
INSIDE your template line. Cut this line. It will be
your template for the new steel pan.

I am going to use 18GA steel sheet, non-galv, non-coated.
I will have the shapes rough cut at the sheet metal shop
and I will grind to finish dimensions.

After clean, clean and then really clean, I plan on
setting the floor pans in a thin bead of Rezi-weld
space age epoxy and put a few bricks for weight.
25 minute pot time, 4 hour hard-set time, 24 hour full cure.

Then weld the pans in place and coat for weather
proofing.

Of course, this all depends on the Crypt Car having
no PO surprises in the engine or transmission departments.

If surprises pop up, then I might be welding a new tuna
tower on my new Grady White after Crypty gets crushed.

d
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

[ QUOTE ]
An aside, I stuck a high intensity microlight into my rockers and saw surface rust. Will treat these after the welding, by cutting holes in the rear of the rockers and spraying Eastwood frame paint.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are inviting Doom spraying paint over rust. If you're cutting a hole large enough to spray paint, you should use either a solid extension on a hand drill with a small wire wheel or an extension & wire wheel on a Dremel-like tool to get in there & strip off the rust.

Vacuum it out, then paint the metal with phosphoric acid which will react with any small remaining areas of rust to form inert iron phospate. THEN you can paint. Phosphoric acid is available in commercial one gallon quantities like gallon bottles in the paint sections of Home Depot, Loew's, etc. under proprietary names like Ph-Oshpo-Ric (clever!), Rust Converter, etc. Naval jelly is phosphoric acid in a gel carrier & is useful in spplications where it's difficult to strip scale or have phosphoric acid hang upside down, but the liquid variety is more manageable for cleanup & also can be used in pyrex containers to dump small parts in after they've been wire wheeled or media blasted.

Your rocker situation can be effectively arrested for a long time, but it sounds like the procedure is going to be basically More Dental Work.
 
Bill,
The PO of my 3A did a lovely job of the floors. He cut a sheet of steel to fit exaclty inside the original floor and cut recesses for the jacking hole and around the body mounts. There is a perfect 2mm gap around all of the edges. He appears to have used mastick to seal all of the edges and the under-side. However, I would still like to do the job properly some time. I just like to know that things have been done properly. I would have thought that if you fit the new floors over the original body mount areas you will never know what is lurking under there. Personally I would cut out the rotted areas of floor and but-weld in patches cut from the new floors. This is how it was done in my previous TR and it seemed to be the strongest way to do it and it was invisible after grinding the welds.
I would also be wanting to spray Waxoyl or Dinitrol into your sills, not paint that will allow the rust to eat away underneath at the metal under the paint.
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

Nick, this is exactly what I plan to do, as you described. Perhaps I misstated the plan in the original post. I will cut out 90% of the original floor, leaving only the "tabs" that support the rockers and the firewall. After wire-wheeling these areas, I will lay the new floor over the giant hole with minimum overlap and full overlap over the tabs. I will reapply the the floor bolts and Cleco everything else down. Then the Mig-ing process starts. The only area that will be a "double" floor will be the few spots where the tabs overlap and this will only be a few square centimeters.

As far as the inside of the rockers, there has to be a tool to get to the insides to scrape away at the perceived corrosion. The idea of etching these area is a good one. My idea of painting them is perhaps bad if only paint. I will research a better type of permanent coating. I do use Waxoyl and have found that it works best when super-heated and thinned to the point that it becomes liquid. I do have a pressure gun with long extension to apply it. The rockers shall require further inspection and assessment before I fully come up with a plan. Since the rockers are not a truly closed cavity and do offer active drainage, they will require special attention. Thanks to the both of you for input.

The finished floorboards should look original to the untrained eye, not a patch job. I hope.

Quick question: there is a zinc primer that allows welding through. Any luck with such and how is it as a primer. The biggest challenge will be to prime the underside of the new floor board, or even to paint it, when done. It obviously rests close to or on the frame in many spots. The leaking of oil from the engine/tranny has coated it over the years and acted as a rust inhibitor, I need to probably just use a product like Eastwood's rust-inhibiting chassis black paint to protect it. I guess I can paint the entire underside before installing it, just know that the Mig-ing will burn off a few centimeters into the painted surface.
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

LPS Industries *used* to have a rattle-can product which approximated a galvanize. I've not looked for it recently but it may be worth a search. It seemed to work well as an undercarriage material through several western PA winters. I'd apply it -after- welding, tho. The 'fumar' resulting from the welder CAN'T be good for ya.

EDIT: Have you looked into some of the epoxy primers available? They're REALLY tough, y'know.
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

[ QUOTE ]
zinc primer that allows welding through

[/ QUOTE ]

I use a zinc primer, referred to as Weld Through primer between the metal surfaces being joined. SEM has brush and spray on, Eastwood also carries a similar product. It is intended to protect the metal joints and I would recommend using it.

The brazed welds on the tunnel were placed there as a part of the pre-assembly process. The tunnel and floor edges are also spot welded underneath.

You may want to step back and consider using a flanged lip that would retain all the edge connections, including the four tabs. The difference is that you leave enough old solid metal to allow the use of a flanging tool to form a flange on the lip for the new floor panel to set in.

You can then stitch weld, notch weld, or plug weld in the properly fitted panel. When done, you have new surface at the same level as the old.

For awhile, I kind of chuckled a Dale's use of metal bonding for panel repairs, but have since changed my mind. While I have not used the process, several readings on the web have confirmed bonding techniques exist that will provide an as good or better bond then the weld. (no heat, no shrinkage, burn through, etc.) The panels are flanged then bonded with structural adhesive and flush riveted. Check this link to Eastwood to see their offering. May solve a lot of the problems with "how do I seal and paint the bottom?"
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

I have had excellent field experience using
the new, super high strength, epoxy-weld products.

It is my intent to use a 10,000 psi epoxy-weld bead
more as a waterproofing compound to reach the areas
my welding guy will miss. And the expoxy-weld materials
can be sanded for a flush surface.

I see no downside to installing new floor pans with epoxy-weld materials as a contributory component.

tinster
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

I had a problem with my driver's side floor board. The previous owner had neglected to replace the brake master, and over time the leaking brake fluid corroded the floor.

I took the repair approach vs restoration. Picked up 18 gauge sheet steel, thinking this was the thickest i could weld to the parent 20 odd gauge steel.

Cut out all the bad stuff, wire wheeled everything else. Made a template from an old pizza box, cut out the new piece from the sheet steel.

My brother in law happens to have a MIG welder, and he welded the new piece in. Luckily the inner sill is reasonably solid, and there was enough material all around to weld solidly to. We did have to make a 90 degree "ledge" to weld to the forward inner sill, to weld the new piece to.
Welded in place, caulked all around with 3M seam sealer, and painted, I think its as strong or stronger than the original. Its not a restoration, but should last years.

I did get spit harness shield to wrap the harness running on the floor. its out of the way, and with carpet/mats, I dont notice is.

Not the prettiest, but for about $30 in supplies its functional.
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

Sorry, I meant "Split" cable tubing, not "Spit" tubing. Used for harness shielding.
 
Bill,

You might want to try some Walter splatter block spray as well. It helps protect the immediate weld area paint to slag and burn splatter prior to the welding process. Kinda keeps it neat.

You are gonna take some pictures to share all of this fun with us aren't you?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

[ QUOTE ]


You are gonna take some pictures to share all of this fun with us aren't you?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

There will be pictures, although they may be X-rated (for language). The engine/tranny are on a floor box I made to hole the engine upright and stable. The interior is gutted.
I will start the cutting process tomorrow. One side at a time. The Heritage floorboards seem a bit thin but at least they are exact replicas. Will cut them out with the plasma cutter.
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

If'n ya need something to ~REALLY~ hole the engine with little effort, I could pro'lly dig up a grenade fer ya. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif

But back to topic: Never did a TR6 resto (oddly enuff), but finally did our MGB floorpans. Used "Panel Bond" adhesive for the first time, after doing some experimenting with it to satisfy meself it weren't just more "snake-oil". I'm sold. I'd never have tried it on a client's car but figger'd if the Hughes outfit stapled rotor-wing aircraft together with it, it'd be worth a try on MY vehicle.

Plenty of stainless pop-rivets, too, BTW. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

Sorry, dudes, the glued-in floor panels on my TR6 scare me. As a perfect example of an "Old Dog", new tricks escape me. Close examination of my floorboards, where they attach to the frame and how they are welded, brazed and spot-welded to each other, makes me nervous to consider "gluing" the darn thing together.
I don't know if "scuttle shake" is an issue with the likes of an MG, but it is a real factor in the Triumph lineup (save the Wedge family). Just the fact that the car flexes because of the design of the frame (as witnessed by the fit of the doors depending on where the frame is jacked) and knowing that I have to re-weld in new retaining nuts on my frame that have been stripped because of the center rigid console torquing them so much over the years, makes me wary, very wary, of "gluing" floorboards in my car. Mig-ing is the way to fly.
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

I would not argue hard for the "glue-pot" method, and certainly was a skeptic of bond vs. weld. Old dog here as well. BUT: I had no way to access welder, no place to do it if I had... and in the MG's there's a nice 1" "lip" all the way 'round the floorpan area. I did a BUNCH of test bonds with various types of metals and then proceeded to torture the joints to failure. Aside from being FUN, it has me convinced that it's not nearly as frail as one would think. In all cases the metal would be horribly deformed before the bond would rupture. Tension, compression, shear and impact all had the metal fail before the glue let go.

All that said, I'd STILL go with a MIG-rig if given choice...

I'll report back in a few years as to the "field efficacy" of the glue. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif
 
Re: WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS......floorboards are a pai

I would agree with welding. If you have a very minor rust hole, maybe fibreglass or structural adhesive would be adequate. Welding has stood the test of time.
 
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