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TR2/3/3A Wheels, tires, hubs and axles

Jayplum

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I am converting from the painted wire wheels to steel disc wheels. I understand that changing the front hubs and rear axles is required. I have test fitted the wheels and they seem to fit well with no change of hubs or axles.
How do I determine if replacement of the hubs or axle is necessary?

BTW, I got the wheels powder coated and now are looking for tires; suggestions??

car is 1957 TR3 small mouth.
 

TR3driver

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The problem is the wheel studs; they had to be shortened to fit wire wheels. The steel wheels will appear to fit with the shorter studs, but the result is weak and apt to break.

To check, install the wheels with the larger nuts used with steel wheels (which are flat on top rather than conical on both sides). The stud should fill the nut.
But unless the wire wheels were resting on the ends of the studs instead of on the taper of the adapter, you've got the short studs.

The studs are fairly easy to change in the front hubs; new longer studs are readily available from the usual suspects. Rear studs are harder to change, as they thread in from the face of the hub and are peened over on the back. You have to grind away the area where they are peened, unscrew as much as you can, then screw back in and grind some more (where the threaded part gets deformed). The hubs can stay on the half shafts; but IMO it's easier to remove the half shaft and hub assembly from the axle, for easier access to the back of the hub.

Sorry, no help on tires. I run wide wheels and low profile tires.
 
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Jayplum

Jayplum

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thanks, I have bought all new studs and nuts. I was unaware of the issue with the rear studs. I agree pulling the axle for access may be best.

The problem is the wheel studs; they had to be shortened to fit wire wheels. The steel wheels will appear to fit with the shorter studs, but the result is weak and apt to break.

To check, install the wheels with the larger nuts used with steel wheels (which are flat on top rather than conical on both sides). The stud should fill the nut.
But unless the wire wheels were resting on the ends of the studs instead of on the taper of the adapter, you've got the short studs.

The studs are fairly easy to change in the front hubs; new longer studs are readily available from the usual suspects. Rear studs are harder to change, as they thread in from the face of the hub and are peened over on the back. You have to grind away the area where they are peened, unscrew as much as you can, then screw back in and grind some more (where the threaded part gets deformed). The hubs can stay on the half shafts; but IMO it's easier to remove the half shaft and hub assembly from the axle, for easier access to the back of the hub.

Sorry, no help on tires. I run wide wheels and low profile tires.
 

DavidApp

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I used Nankang 165/80R15 87T on my steel rims.

The have done well so far and a full size tire will just fit in the spare wheel compartment. I have put 1000 miles on them since last February.

David
 
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Jayplum

Jayplum

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I used Nankang 165/80R15 87T on my steel rims.

The have done well so far and a full size tire will just fit in the spare wheel compartment. I have put 1000 miles on them since last February.

David

Thanks. I will look at them. Not familiar with the brand.
 

Geo Hahn

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Since you have a 57 you may find that a 165/80 will not fit in the spare compartment... I went with a 'space saver' spare.

Separating the rear hub is not a trivial task - you will want to read up on that a bit.
 

Jerry

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Rear hub is a nightmare. I had a company use a press on them. He bent one of them. I bought my tires from Walmart. 185s. A few brands to choose from. Good price and they mounted them.
 

GilsTR

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If one is interested in a spare tire that fits well in the spare compartment
and is the original 155:15" look at Lucas Tire. Very affordable @$110.

Gil. NoCal
 

TR3driver

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Since you have a 57 you may find that a 165/80 will not fit in the spare compartment... I went with a 'space saver' spare.
Just to amplify a bit on that, the spare tire well got deliberately larger at TS60001, when they went to 165 tires. Every 165 I've tried has been an extremely tight fit in the earlier well, if it fits at all. I used to keep a rope tied around the tire, and it partially deflated, just so I could get it back out.

Like Geo, I eventually went with a "compact spare", $15 at the local junkyard. Another advantage, the compact spares are a different construction; treadwear is very short but they don't "age out" like modern radials do. So they last essentially forever as a spare tire.
Separating the rear hub is not a trivial task - you will want to read up on that a bit.
Just for clarity, what I was suggesting was to pull the hub and half shaft as an assembly; which is much easier. Turn the lock tabs, undo 6 bolts, and it slides right out.
Might be a good time to consider replacing the oil seal inside the housing. It may get damaged when you remove the axle and it's a PITA when they leak (gear oil ruins the brake linings).

Keep a suitable nut handy, so you can put one of the bolts back through the backing plate and shims. That way, you don't have to open the hydraulic system. I had the shoes off for this photo (mine had to be replaced anyway), but they can stay in place.
bCL3Igc.jpg


When you get it back together (but before turning the new lock tabs), it's best to recheck the end float. Should be OK, but sometimes it's not.

owkCTTQ.jpg


HF sells a clamping dial indicator that I found to be adequate for the task. I did have to add a flat washer to get the locking mechanism to work, though.

https://www.harborfreight.com/clamping-dial-indicator-63656.html
 

sp53

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I have never taken the studs out and it sounds like a real pain. Would it be easier to use a different set of axles and just swap them out for the longer studs?
 

TR3driver

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Some, if you have a spare pair available. But the odds are greater that you'll need to adjust the shim packs, which means taking at least one axle back out again. Make sure the bearings and seals are in good shape too.

And be warned that while the TR4 parts look very similar (hubs are the same), the axles are not interchangeable. I've noticed that some eBay sellers don't seem to know (or don't care) about the smaller differences between models.
 

DavidApp

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Did you check he rims for run out?
I collected 14 rims to get a good set of 5. Most of the rejected ones ran out a bit and one had been curbed so hard the bead retaining flange was cracked.

David
 
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Jayplum

Jayplum

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Just to amplify a bit on that, the spare tire well got deliberately larger at TS60001, when they went to 165 tires. Every 165 I've tried has been an extremely tight fit in the earlier well, if it fits at all. I used to keep a rope tied around the tire, and it partially deflated, just so I could get it back out.

Like Geo, I eventually went with a "compact spare", $15 at the local junkyard. Another advantage, the compact spares are a different construction; treadwear is very short but they don't "age out" like modern radials do. So they last essentially forever as a spare tire.

Just for clarity, what I was suggesting was to pull the hub and half shaft as an assembly; which is much easier. Turn the lock tabs, undo 6 bolts, and it slides right out.
Might be a good time to consider replacing the oil seal inside the housing. It may get damaged when you remove the axle and it's a PITA when they leak (gear oil ruins the brake linings).

Keep a suitable nut handy, so you can put one of the bolts back through the backing plate and shims. That way, you don't have to open the hydraulic system. I had the shoes off for this photo (mine had to be replaced anyway), but they can stay in place.
bCL3Igc.jpg


When you get it back together (but before turning the new lock tabs), it's best to recheck the end float. Should be OK, but sometimes it's not.

owkCTTQ.jpg


HF sells a clamping dial indicator that I found to be adequate for the task. I did have to add a flat washer to get the locking mechanism to work, though.

https://www.harborfreight.com/clamping-dial-indicator-63656.html

Thanks. Very good write up. Knowledge is power.
 
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Jayplum

Jayplum

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Did you check he rims for run out?
I collected 14 rims to get a good set of 5. Most of the rejected ones ran out a bit and one had been curbed so hard the bead retaining flange was cracked.

David

I lucked out. Got the wheels from a friend. No obvious run out but once tires mounted and speed balanced the truth will be known. Hope works since I’ve already powder coated them. One of them has rust damage on felloe band but tube will fix (spare).
 

DavidApp

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I checked my rims by mounting each one on the front hub and rotating it with pointer to measure the run out. Some went up and down some side to side and a few did both. I did this before I sand blasted the 5 winners. I would have powder coated them but the local company wanted $125.00 per wheel despite them being all ready to coat. Primed them and used rattle can Ford Argent silver.

David
 
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Jayplum

Jayplum

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I checked mine best I could then got powder coat and media blasted for $75 per. Probably close to same color.
now looking for hub caps, emblems and beauty rims.
 

DavidApp

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You can get lucky on e bay and find some good hub caps. I had to replace 1 as one of the ones that came with the car was rusty.

David
 

Sarastro

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You might want to take a look at my description of replacing the rear studs:

http://www.nonlintec.com/tr4a/drivetrain/#wheelstud

The studs have a flange that locates the brake drum. On the studs I bought, the flange was too small. I had to modify them to make the drum fit as it should. It probably would have been OK if I were replacing just one, or maybe even two, but replacing all four would have resulted in a loose drum.

Replacing those studs is not too difficult if you have the right equipment.

I had the same experience as David with my steel wheels. I put one on a hub and spun it, and it had at least 1/4" of runout. I didn't even look at the others; just got a set of VTO wheels.
 
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