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Bruce Bowker
Obi Wan
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You are opening, not a box of worms, but and an entire truck convoy or worms. Good luck. Keep in mind when done, the car will probably be worth about 10% of what you invested.
Bruce
Bruce
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SilentUnicorn
Yoda
Offline
and not much MG left.....
mark
mark
Trevor Jessie
Yoda
Offline
Guys, I don't think he is interested in the Midget as a Classic British car. He wants to put a big engine in a little car for the sake of doing it. Whether it is "right" or "wrong". But, I may be misreading him.
Bruce Bowker
Obi Wan
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
He wants to put a big engine in a little car for the sake of doing it. Whether it is "right" or "wrong".
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't think it was ever a case or right or wrong. Just "is it really worth it?"
He wants to put a big engine in a little car for the sake of doing it. Whether it is "right" or "wrong".
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't think it was ever a case or right or wrong. Just "is it really worth it?"
I concur with Bruce and SilentUnicorn.
The Midget is just too small to accomodate a V8 without totally destroying the car.
Now if you were contemplating an engine swap to something nearer the same size, but still considerably more powerful than the original BMC "A" engine, like a Honda VTech engine, that's much more doable.
The Midget is just too small to accomodate a V8 without totally destroying the car.
Now if you were contemplating an engine swap to something nearer the same size, but still considerably more powerful than the original BMC "A" engine, like a Honda VTech engine, that's much more doable.
RobSelina
Jedi Warrior
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
I actually just found out my uncle has an old fox body mustang that sits out behind his house, I might look into using its front suspension. If I go this route, won't I have to install a power steering pump? Anybody know what type of rear and transmission is in these kinds of mustangs? Might be able to use it. I'll keep the 8.8 in mind when eventually visit the junk yard. Also, why and how would I need to attach the tubed frame to the front suspension? Can't I just do like this guy did on his Sprite in this link : https://the-mite.com/index.htm Do you think that is enough support?
Anyways, I do plan on putting in some custom guages and flaring the fenders. Also the ebay info was very helpful. I plan on cutting out the instrument cluster in a midget dash, putting in a plain back, and cutting holes for a Tach, Speedo, and the other necessary guages. The car will have no heater, or AC, to keep the engine bay as uncluttered as possible. No need for them either if you ask me. Will only be driving this car occasionally, and will always have the top down, and it would be just plain stupid of me to try to drive this vehicle when it turns off cold.
My shop/garage, is basically just a regular garage. A relative of mine will probably be doing all the welding for me. He is considered one of the best welders in the county and he loves to work on cars. My Body man does wonders with pieces of junk, and he will be doing the fender flares and other body work that the appearance of the car will need. As a matter of fact, the Midget is over there right now receiving a good coat of primer before all the fabrication begins. Thanx for all the help and sorry about all these questions. Just keeping you guys on your toes.
[/ QUOTE ]
The power steering box/rack&pinion will have to be installed of course and you'll need a pump on the 302, but that should be easy considering mustangs had power steering stock so brackets should be plentiful.
As for mustang transmissions and rear ends - the rear is a 28 sline 8.8. It's slightly weaker than the 31 spline 8.8 I was suggesting but it's a good axle and you can get 31 spline kits for them for a reasonable price. Tranny, I have no clue. I'd try a mustang board for more info on what's in that car.
You could attach the new suspension in a similar fashion to what this guy did, but you need to make sure the mounting locations are tied very well to the tube frame and if you're trying to modify the fox body suspension to fit, it'll be easier to do by just fabricating new mounts from scratch onto the tube frame instead of adapting them to available locations on the unibody.
As for your garage, consider making provisions for 220V outlets for the welder and consider getting one yourself or finding out what it will take for your family member to bring his setup over. You'll need to do a LOT of fabrication on site or have a trailer to be hauling this thing back and forth, but frankly, there's not much 'wrenching' compared to 'fabricating' on this project if that makes sense...
I actually just found out my uncle has an old fox body mustang that sits out behind his house, I might look into using its front suspension. If I go this route, won't I have to install a power steering pump? Anybody know what type of rear and transmission is in these kinds of mustangs? Might be able to use it. I'll keep the 8.8 in mind when eventually visit the junk yard. Also, why and how would I need to attach the tubed frame to the front suspension? Can't I just do like this guy did on his Sprite in this link : https://the-mite.com/index.htm Do you think that is enough support?
Anyways, I do plan on putting in some custom guages and flaring the fenders. Also the ebay info was very helpful. I plan on cutting out the instrument cluster in a midget dash, putting in a plain back, and cutting holes for a Tach, Speedo, and the other necessary guages. The car will have no heater, or AC, to keep the engine bay as uncluttered as possible. No need for them either if you ask me. Will only be driving this car occasionally, and will always have the top down, and it would be just plain stupid of me to try to drive this vehicle when it turns off cold.
My shop/garage, is basically just a regular garage. A relative of mine will probably be doing all the welding for me. He is considered one of the best welders in the county and he loves to work on cars. My Body man does wonders with pieces of junk, and he will be doing the fender flares and other body work that the appearance of the car will need. As a matter of fact, the Midget is over there right now receiving a good coat of primer before all the fabrication begins. Thanx for all the help and sorry about all these questions. Just keeping you guys on your toes.
[/ QUOTE ]
The power steering box/rack&pinion will have to be installed of course and you'll need a pump on the 302, but that should be easy considering mustangs had power steering stock so brackets should be plentiful.
As for mustang transmissions and rear ends - the rear is a 28 sline 8.8. It's slightly weaker than the 31 spline 8.8 I was suggesting but it's a good axle and you can get 31 spline kits for them for a reasonable price. Tranny, I have no clue. I'd try a mustang board for more info on what's in that car.
You could attach the new suspension in a similar fashion to what this guy did, but you need to make sure the mounting locations are tied very well to the tube frame and if you're trying to modify the fox body suspension to fit, it'll be easier to do by just fabricating new mounts from scratch onto the tube frame instead of adapting them to available locations on the unibody.
As for your garage, consider making provisions for 220V outlets for the welder and consider getting one yourself or finding out what it will take for your family member to bring his setup over. You'll need to do a LOT of fabrication on site or have a trailer to be hauling this thing back and forth, but frankly, there's not much 'wrenching' compared to 'fabricating' on this project if that makes sense...
Trevor Jessie
Yoda
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
Don't think it was ever a case or right or wrong. Just "is it really worth it?"
[/ QUOTE ]
And worth of most cars is determined by their owners. Many of us spend more on these little cars than we will ever get back out of them.
For the record: I wouldn't do it, but I can understand why somebody would. It is a challenge and there are many obstacles to overcome. If the solutions to the obstacles are ingeneous, and the fabrication is well done then the car has more value than a hack job.
I've also encouraged this fellow to pass the midget on to someone that might preserve its original character, but his mind is apparently set on the midget.
Don't think it was ever a case or right or wrong. Just "is it really worth it?"
[/ QUOTE ]
And worth of most cars is determined by their owners. Many of us spend more on these little cars than we will ever get back out of them.
For the record: I wouldn't do it, but I can understand why somebody would. It is a challenge and there are many obstacles to overcome. If the solutions to the obstacles are ingeneous, and the fabrication is well done then the car has more value than a hack job.
I've also encouraged this fellow to pass the midget on to someone that might preserve its original character, but his mind is apparently set on the midget.
Bruce Bowker
Obi Wan
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
And worth of most cars is determined by their owners.
[/ QUOTE ]
Market is the biggest determining factor of a car. An owner may think a car is worth far more but market value is where it stands most of the time. My point was that will a car such as this have ANY market value when done, whether well done or poorly done. I doubt it. But it isn't my money and may he have fun although I think it will more frustration and dollars than fun.
And worth of most cars is determined by their owners.
[/ QUOTE ]
Market is the biggest determining factor of a car. An owner may think a car is worth far more but market value is where it stands most of the time. My point was that will a car such as this have ANY market value when done, whether well done or poorly done. I doubt it. But it isn't my money and may he have fun although I think it will more frustration and dollars than fun.
Trevor Jessie
Yoda
Offline
Yes, we are talking about two different definitions of "worth". It will be virtually worthless in terms of classic car market. But his enjoyment of the project and the product will determine whether it was "worth it"
Some people like a challenge, regardless of the frustration level. If it is easily done by anyone with the money to do it, then it is not a challenge. (maybe this is just American Redneck reasoning on my part)
There are many members in my car club that claim to have restored cars, but in actuality they have outsourced 95% of the work. There is nothing wrong with this approach, but it might be more correct for them to say they "had the car restored" ... but I digress.
Some people like a challenge, regardless of the frustration level. If it is easily done by anyone with the money to do it, then it is not a challenge. (maybe this is just American Redneck reasoning on my part)
There are many members in my car club that claim to have restored cars, but in actuality they have outsourced 95% of the work. There is nothing wrong with this approach, but it might be more correct for them to say they "had the car restored" ... but I digress.
Keoke
Great Pumpkin
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, we are talking about two different definitions of "worth". It will be virtually worthless in terms of classic car market. But his enjoyment of the project and the product will determine whether it was "worth it"
I think you had better check on the prices Jaguar lumps are commanding today and all major car clubs now have the "Modified Class"---Keoke
Yes, we are talking about two different definitions of "worth". It will be virtually worthless in terms of classic car market. But his enjoyment of the project and the product will determine whether it was "worth it"
I think you had better check on the prices Jaguar lumps are commanding today and all major car clubs now have the "Modified Class"---Keoke
Bruce Bowker
Obi Wan
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DonPete3
Member
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I saw a custom MG on ebay recently with a smallblock V8 from a buick under the hood. It is possible to put anything into anything with enough adjustments.
Now it's just my opinion...but I've always thought that the fun of these cars is seeing how many horses you can get out of the A-Series engine. An LBC has a distinct feel to it (motor, suspension, trans, etc.) If you alter all of the above you may miss out on some things.
Now it's just my opinion...but I've always thought that the fun of these cars is seeing how many horses you can get out of the A-Series engine. An LBC has a distinct feel to it (motor, suspension, trans, etc.) If you alter all of the above you may miss out on some things.
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Amazing conversations all, I figure if you're going to do it, do it! I just wonder where you'll sit.
Here's some inspiration /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
https://www.britcars.org/modules/xcgal/displayimage.php?pid=158&album=17&pos=84
Here's some inspiration /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
https://www.britcars.org/modules/xcgal/displayimage.php?pid=158&album=17&pos=84
lesingepsycho
Jedi Warrior
Offline
My $.02, and for what it's worth, if I had the time and money at my expense and I wanted a microscopic car with huge power, I would avoid all the problems with trying to shoe-horn a V-8 into an MG which will be very difficult to make handle proper and not self destruct and just go with a Cobra Kit. That way you've got a 427 in a chassis that can handle it, most of the kits come designed to take a MustangII front end and Ford 9" rear, therefore proper braking, etc etc. There's a company here in town, (or at least there used to be) that sold about 5 different stages of kits depending on how much of the kit you wanted to build/fabricate yourself all the way from stage 1 where you just get a chassis and a bunch of body parts for a few thousand bucks, all the way up to a turn-key for 34 grand. Just a consideration, afterall, I think the driveability of the machine when you're done is a factor unless it is purely an excersise of will and determination.
toplesshorse
Freshman Member
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THIS NEEDS TO BE SAID.
Ok here it is one detroit head to another. I have built brit cars and muscle cars since I was 7 I am now 42. My daily driver is a 94 Mustang Convt, it is set up for street stock NMRA drag racing. I have a 74 rust bucket that I am bringing back the body to stock and leaving the engine original. The interior will be set up for autocross. However, I am doing nothing that could prevent it from going back to original.
Enough about me.
Either rebuild the car and keep it authentic or sell it to someone that cares about these cars. These cars will not last forever so let someone have it who enjoys it for what it is. Do not destroy it to find out it won't do what you want.
Call B&B cobra manufacturing https://www.bandbroadster.com/
They run a drag car with a 460 and the frame will not twist.
You will put less time and money into a bad a_ _ small british car that will outperform almost anything on the road, and the frame wont come apart and get you killed. This is a concern. Unless you make your own tube chassis and cut the body up it will not work.
Sorry to sound like a jerk but I believe these old cars should be kept up so other generations can enjoy them. My 13 year old is helping on the Midget and he thinks it's cool. I want him to have the same oppertunity to drag these cars home and make them live again.
Ok here it is one detroit head to another. I have built brit cars and muscle cars since I was 7 I am now 42. My daily driver is a 94 Mustang Convt, it is set up for street stock NMRA drag racing. I have a 74 rust bucket that I am bringing back the body to stock and leaving the engine original. The interior will be set up for autocross. However, I am doing nothing that could prevent it from going back to original.
Enough about me.
Either rebuild the car and keep it authentic or sell it to someone that cares about these cars. These cars will not last forever so let someone have it who enjoys it for what it is. Do not destroy it to find out it won't do what you want.
Call B&B cobra manufacturing https://www.bandbroadster.com/
They run a drag car with a 460 and the frame will not twist.
You will put less time and money into a bad a_ _ small british car that will outperform almost anything on the road, and the frame wont come apart and get you killed. This is a concern. Unless you make your own tube chassis and cut the body up it will not work.
Sorry to sound like a jerk but I believe these old cars should be kept up so other generations can enjoy them. My 13 year old is helping on the Midget and he thinks it's cool. I want him to have the same oppertunity to drag these cars home and make them live again.
Trevor Jessie
Yoda
Offline
Hey... Everyone has an opinion. What I like about the spridget community is their easy going free spirited nature. I respect everyone's right to their opinions, but more importantly I respect everyone's right to do to their car what they want. I'm seriously considering a modern drive train. I want my midget to be fun to drive and quicker than it is now. I wouldn't want a Cobra replica that everyone expects to be fast, I want a "sleeper". Just my opinion. If anyone is truly concerned about me "destroying" my midget, it is always for sale for ludicrous price.
jaybird
Yoda
Offline
~sigh~
What's the point, really? This is a Midget. A small, cute British car. Was not meant to have a V8 in it. It's not a Hemicuda. It was designed and built to be exactly what it is. You're going to futz up a nice LCB to try to turn it into some iron. Sell the Midget out, buy a skeleton of an old GM car and dump your V8 into it.
I'm tempted to give you your $200 back just to keep you from messing up the car and possibly killing yourself in the long run.
But then again, I'm a purist.
What's the point, really? This is a Midget. A small, cute British car. Was not meant to have a V8 in it. It's not a Hemicuda. It was designed and built to be exactly what it is. You're going to futz up a nice LCB to try to turn it into some iron. Sell the Midget out, buy a skeleton of an old GM car and dump your V8 into it.
I'm tempted to give you your $200 back just to keep you from messing up the car and possibly killing yourself in the long run.
But then again, I'm a purist.
Trevor Jessie
Yoda
Offline
Hmm, So (again) everyone's opinion counts. However, this guy wasn't trying to stuff a V8 into anyone's LBC but his own. This forum is supposed to be a place to help others and find help. I'm passionate about many things (including LBC), but I do not pretend to know what is best for the individual and his/her LBC. For anyone to say that it can't be done, or shouldn't be done, or it isn't worth doing is a bit narrow sighted. I think we are all familiar with the anology to mountain climbing.