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What's the difference...

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ws6vert

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Hi, I just recently acquired a 1974 MG MIDGET, and was wondering what the main differences were between them and a MGB. We bought the car for $200 because it was basically disassembled, and was told it was a 74 MGB, but after researching, I have come to find out it is a Midget. After having owned muscle cars /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif most of my life, i had planned on putting a Ford 302 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif in the car. I know many MGB's have successffully accomplished this, but I could find nothing on a midget with a v8 in it. So basically, whats the difference in a Midget and a MGB, and is it possible to fit a V8 like a Ford 302 in one of these cars?
 
My father is also into muscle cars, and he claims that you can fit any motor into any car ...but the result is not always pretty. The MGB is a totally different car. It is significantly larger and much easier to swap a motor into. Most midget swaps involve modern 4 cylinder engines, and there are no stateside "kits". It is a DIY affair. However, there are plenty of MGB kits for V6 and V8 conversions. It is much easier to find MGB's than Midgets. You might be able to get more out of your '74 midget and buy a MGB for your project.

https://www.britcars.org/modules/xcgal/displayimage.php?pid=151&album=17&pos=76

https://britishv8.org/swaps/examples.htm
 
You can <u>put</u> anything, <u>into</u> anything. Whether it'll be good for much is open to question. A friend had a Bugeye with a 327 in it, but it was totally undriveable. The MGB lends itself to engine swaps much more readily than a Midget. The Chevy V-6 conversion seems to work well. Or, ideally, the Rover (Buick) V-8.
The Midget just doesn't have the structural integrity to take much weight up front, without some serious chassis fabrication, suspension and brake work, etc. And, when you're done, you wind up with something that goes like a bat in a straight line, but won't turn, won't stop, and is generally miserable to drive.
Jeff
 
I had a friend who dropped a 283 Chevy in a Midget.
It beat everything in town on a straight road for almost a week before it twisted up.
Being of unibody type construction, the V8 is just too much for the little Midget.
 
Many people like the 74 model midget since it has the round wheel arch in the back. So, if the tub is in good shape you can probably find a buyer and make a substantial profit to put towards an MGB. But if you like the midget, then consider doing a more resonable swap like a toyota 4age or a mazda rotary engine. These swaps give you a good power to weight ratio that *could* easily outperform an MGB V8, especially around the corners.
 
[ QUOTE ]
And, when you're done, you wind up with something that goes like a bat in a straight line, but won't turn, won't stop, and is generally miserable to drive.


[/ QUOTE ]

From an LBC lover perspective, wouldn't that be how most of us would describe most american muscle? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif
 
ok, so the midget was a Unibody? Whats that, and what does a MGB have? Also what if I boxed the frame and added extra supports and other structural improvements? What if I pushed the engine as far back in the engine compartment as possible, wouldnt that move alot of weight more toward the center of the car, making it easier to handle? I read somewhere that the Ford 302 only weighs around 450lbs and that's with iron heads. As for brakes, do they make a disc brake kit for the midget? How hard would it be to put disc brakes on a midget if there is no kit? The car is in a bizillion pieces, I have no original engine block, it only cost me $200 and since I have the resources, I figure why not give it a shot. I can easily get a cracked 302 block to make measurements with, I can get a Ford t-5 transmission from Jegs, have a driveshaft and rear axel customized for my needs. And, like I mentioned before, I'm a muscle car man. I currently own a 2000 Trans Am Ws6 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif and have just recently sold an all original 1969 Chevelle /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif. A V8 is a must!! What do ya think, think it can be done? It would probably end up being the only 302 midget around. OH YEAH... thanks for all the quick replys so far, never owned one of these little British cars, but have heard they are lots of fun.
 
I am sure you will get some more replies by people much more knowledgable than myself, but a unibody construction vehicle is one where the frame is integral to the body, as most modern cars are made now. The actual body panels add the structural integrity to the car. There isn't a frame to box in. A MGB has the same construction. This is why it is so important to find a car with little body rust.

The later Sprites and Midgets did come with disc brakes in the front, and it is possible to put this on the earlier models.
 
hmm... well if the MGB has the same type frame, why would it hold up better than the Midget? There has to be some way to beef up a unibody frame to withstand the torque of a V8? Thanks Jim, this car has been completely sand blasted, absolutely no rust, which I made sure of as soon as I purchased it, and is being primered now to protect the metal. Last thing, What can be done to beef up a Midget suspension? Are there new springs, A-Arms anything like that? Thanx once again.
 
You seem to be determined to complete the swap. Here are some links of interest:
https://www.acmespeedshop.com/suspension_kit.htm
https://www.speedwellengineering.com/frontsusp.html
https://the-mite.com/index.htm
https://www.ntahc.org/modifiedhealeys/Photos/126Marian/Marian.htm
https://members.tripod.com/PDLJMPR/bfarl.htm


I have seen a number of other v8 conversions, including that Hemi (but that required a custom frame onto which a sprite bady was set)
BTW, I'm fairly certain that a 302 will not fit under the hood(bonnet). It will require a hood scoop. And, the transmission tunnel (that is a source of much of the body rigidity) will need to be greatly widened if you use a c4 or similar auto transmission.
 
Wow, thanks guys, those links are just what i have been searching for, and that bugeye HEMI! NO WAY! I knew from the get go that the transmission tunnel is too small and will have to be opened up. I plan on using a ford 5 speed transmission. Also I knew the hood clearance would be a factor, Still havent quite worked that out in my mind yet. It shouldnt portrude too far above the hood, I was thinking I might find a boss 302 shaker hood scoop and have it sticking above the hood /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif. I have seen a MG with that before looked great. Anyways, I appreciate all the feedback so far, if anyone else has any advice, I would certainly apreciate it. Thank you.
 
A Peterbilt has the same type frame as a Chevy pickup, but you don't see any Chevy pickups with 12V92 GM diesels or 3408 Cats in them, do you?
Jeff
 
Don't forget about the rearend. The midget rearend is too weak for a 302 V8. You'll need to have another rearend narrowed. Many of the four cylinder swaps use a first generation rx7. Some others have used vega rearends, and some have used Ford. Bill Young did a V6 conversion. He seems very helpful and posts frequently on the MGBBS.
https://www.mgcars.org.uk/v8_conversions/midget/files/billyoung.html

Keep us posted. There are many purist that will be made ill by your work, but most spridget owners respect the right of others to do as they please with their cars. And even if they disapprove, they still "rubberneck" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I have not forgot about the rear end, a narrowed Ford nine inch is gonna be the way to go. Here's another question I have after looking over all the parts in my garage, can a MGB Dash fit in a Midget? The one I have is extremely ragedy. Also, does the Midget use a power steering system? I ask this because I see no power steering pump in the parts. Thanks again.

Also, for Mr Bugeye58, I'll have to tackle 12v92 engine swap into Chevy pickup after I finish the MG. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif
 
You'll need a Midget dash, but they are on Ebay frequently. Or, you can fabricate your own dash since you will probably want to use after market guages.

No power steering. The midget is so light that it is not needed. A 1974 midget uses the triumph steering rack, earlier midgets (pre 1971) used an Austin rack that has a slightly higher ratio. I suspect you will need a couple of universal joints and an extra mount for your steering column to create room for you exhaust.
 
what kind of shop/garage do you have?

The way I see it to do this 'properly' you better have a 220V mig preferably with provisions to weld Aluminum, a tube bender and of course the usual slew of grinders, chop saws, etc. There will be a lot of fab work involved.

You'll need to probably make a tube subframe to attach to the unibody to distribute the torque from the 302, obviously fab a new dash and trans tunnel and the associated crossmembers. Front suspension should attach to the tube frame and be custom a-arm uppers and lowers. You might be able to adapt ford steering and front suspension from a fox body or something like that, take a look at what's involved. As for the rear, just do a 31-spline 8.8 from a 96+ explorer narrowed to fit. Much cheaper than the 9" and 99% as good. You could probably get some custom 2.5" wide leafs from Alcan to tie into the new frame and stay leafs that way or go triangulated 4-link, whichever you prefer. Additional width wouldn't hurt in this case, so I'd look into buying/fabbing racing fender flares to get another 2-4" of width to accomodate some reasonable rubber....

Basically what it's boiling down to in my view is custom tube frame with ford suspension & steering up front, 4-link coiled 8.8 out back and then the MG body wrapped around it....
 
I actually just found out my uncle has an old fox body mustang that sits out behind his house, I might look into using its front suspension. If I go this route, won't I have to install a power steering pump? Anybody know what type of rear and transmission is in these kinds of mustangs? Might be able to use it. I'll keep the 8.8 in mind when eventually visit the junk yard. Also, why and how would I need to attach the tubed frame to the front suspension? Can't I just do like this guy did on his Sprite in this link : https://the-mite.com/index.htm Do you think that is enough support?

Anyways, I do plan on putting in some custom guages and flaring the fenders. Also the ebay info was very helpful. I plan on cutting out the instrument cluster in a midget dash, putting in a plain back, and cutting holes for a Tach, Speedo, and the other necessary guages. The car will have no heater, or AC, to keep the engine bay as uncluttered as possible. No need for them either if you ask me. Will only be driving this car occasionally, and will always have the top down, and it would be just plain stupid of me to try to drive this vehicle when it turns off cold.

My shop/garage, is basically just a regular garage. A relative of mine will probably be doing all the welding for me. He is considered one of the best welders in the county and he loves to work on cars. My Body man does wonders with pieces of junk, and he will be doing the fender flares and other body work that the appearance of the car will need. As a matter of fact, the Midget is over there right now receiving a good coat of primer before all the fabrication begins. Thanx for all the help and sorry about all these questions. Just keeping you guys on your toes.
 
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