WHAT IS IT THAT MAKES BRITISH CARS SO SPECIAL?

Steve_S · Oct 19, 2008

Am I the only person here who trusts the Lucas components in my car? They are quite durable, actually. Modern repros, not so much. But the original Lucas electrical parts in my cars have lasted 40, 50 even 60 years. When someone mistrusts a Lucas part, it makes me wonder what they're comparing it to!

PS... bad connectors and ground don't count. That's the fault of the owner, not the car.

Deleted member 8987 · Oct 19, 2008

Except when the ground connectors simply snap and fail.
Mine has these spring-steel things that look like handlebar moustaches.
They bolt under things, ground bullets slip into the "curls".
The "curls", after almost 45 years, simply snap.

The switches are a sight to behold.

The panel light switch with built-in resistors......the rotating headlamp switch....on my Jag, there are these red "Lucas" jobbies off the parking lights that light when park or headlamps are on.
Know why?
So you know if your rotary headlamp switch made contact!

How many wires to the votage regulator on your XK120?

Exer really looked at some of the Lucas light sockets?
Or lamp contacts (see: FogRanger)?

Let's look at this:
"Am I the only person here who trusts the Lucas components in my car? They are quite durable, actually. Modern repros, not so much. But the original Lucas electrical parts in my cars have lasted 40, 50 even 60 years. When someone mistrusts a Lucas part, it makes me wonder what they're comparing it to!

PS... bad connectors and ground don't count. That's the fault of the owner, not the car."

Bad connectors and grounds ARE Lucas, and if they fail, that's Lucas.
That said, you live in a place seemingly devoid of weather the rest of us deal with.

If you want damp, corrosion, etc, try oh, Pacific Nortwest.
When is the last time you used your windscreen wipers?

As a native (actually BORN in downtown LA) I can tell you when it DOES rain in SoCal, and folks try their wipers, the rubber has rotted (even US wipers!) since they never get used.

Most folks I know in LA don't drive their "classics" in any kind of dark or inclement weather.

The chances you have had to depend (as in USE them to get home at 0200) headlamps, panel lamps, windscreen washer, heater motor or defroster motor (and associated switches) are little and none.

I know when I took my 1950 Ford out from California to South Carolina in 1972 while in the Navy, I discovered the need for a new vacuum wiper motor the first week.

Never needed it before.

So, in damper climes, when older, there are issues.
Not insurmountable, but issues nonetheless.

(ever looked at the field coils on an older Lucas starter motor?)

70herald · Oct 19, 2008

BenQ said:
This design will then go on to be presented to Rolls Royce, Bentley, and many other British manufacturers.

.

No one has really mentioned it, but Rolls / Bentley are really a totally different class of cars than what most of us here have. Rolls was never a low budget affair. the British cars (with a very few exceptions) we have here were all low budget specials.

One other thing, at BCF, most LBCs are the sportier cars, if you were to ask this same question on a UK board you would get allot of responses from owners of Anglias/ Heralds / Rovers...In other words family cars.

Steve_S · Oct 19, 2008

Sorry for the lengthy reply, but there were a lot of questions to answer...

"Except when the ground connectors simply snap and fail....They bolt under things, ground bullets slip into the "curls". The "curls", after almost 45 years, simply snap."
They last for 45 years and you consider it a poor design? Do you really think a new Toyota part will last that long?

"....on my Jag, there are these red "Lucas" jobbies off the parking lights that light when park or headlamps are on. Know why? So you know if your rotary headlamp switch made contact"
Incorrect. The lamp is to let you know the running lights are on.

"How many wires to the votage regulator on your XK120?"
I don't have an XK140, but your question depends on whether or not is uses a 5 or 9-post control box. Not sure what the point of the question is anyway. :confuse: It take as many wires are required to run power from the control box (voltage regulator) to the various systems.

"Bad connectors and grounds ARE Lucas, and if they fail, that's Lucas."
That's like saying the engine in a brand new car is garbage because it failed due to lack of maintenance. A bad ground is not the fault of Lucas, it's the fault of the owner for not maintaining their vehicle. Metal will corrode, especially in salty or wet climates. Trusting that an electrical ground will survive for 40-60 years exposed to such conditions with no maintenance is rather illogical, don't you think?

"When is the last time you used your windscreen wipers?"
Last week, in a winter storm at 7,000-feet. Don't assume that because I live in California that I never leave my warm, sunny driveway!

"Most folks I know in LA don't drive their "classics" in any kind of dark or inclement weather."
I agree, but I'm not one of them. I drive M.G.s daily to work (through several counties) and for travel. I've driven all over the states in them. I've even driven on the salt flats. Do you know how much salt gets packed into every nook, cranny and system of the car when you do that? In the near future I will be driving a 1949 M.G. 10,000 miles around the entire continent. And you still think you're harder on your Jaguar than I am on my cars? :wink:

"The chances you have had to depend (as in USE them to get home at 0200) headlamps, panel lamps, windscreen washer, heater motor or defroster motor (and associated switches) are little and none."
Excuse me? Why would you assume that I don't drive my car at night? Rather narrow-minded, I think! Yes, I drive my M.G.s at night EVERY night, sometimes far from home in the middle of nowhere and sometimes in the city. And many, many times in torrential downpours with water above the door sills.

"I know when I took my 1950 Ford out from California to South Carolina in 1972 while in the Navy, I discovered the need for a new vacuum wiper motor the first week. Never needed it before."
Of course, since you apparently never used the wipers in California! LOL!

"So, in damper climes, when older, there are issues. Not insurmountable, but issues nonetheless."
I agree. Wet climates are harder on old cars.

"(ever looked at the field coils on an older Lucas starter motor?)"
Yes, when I replaced the brushed in my TC a while back. Despite the mileage on the car, they were original 60-year-old parts. They had worn completely through and were still functioning. I love Lucas!

Deleted member 8987 · Oct 19, 2008

Steve_S said:
Sorry for the lengthy reply, but there were a lot of questions to answer...

"Except when the ground connectors simply snap and fail....They bolt under things, ground bullets slip into the "curls". The "curls", after almost 45 years, simply snap."
They last for 45 years and you consider it a poor design? Do you really think a new Toyota part will last that long?

My Flathead Fords are over 60 years old, haven't lost any grounds. Original starter button, door lamp switches, headlamp switches.....

"....on my Jag, there are these red "Lucas" jobbies off the parking lights that light when park or headlamps are on. Know why? So you know if your rotary headlamp switch made contact"
Incorrect. The lamp is to let you know the running lights are on.

Sorry. EVERY MK2 I have seen, they are on with park and head lamps.

"How many wires to the votage regulator on your XK120?"
I don't have an XK140, but your question depends on whether or not is uses a 5 or 9-post control box. Not sure what the point of the question is anyway. :confuse: It take as many wires are required to run power from the control box (voltage regulator) to the various systems.

All my flatheads have max 3, which is 2 or 6 less possibilities of corrosion or failuer issues.

"Bad connectors and grounds ARE Lucas, and if they fail, that's Lucas."
That's like saying the engine in a brand new car is garbage because it failed due to lack of maintenance. A bad ground is not the fault of Lucas, it's the fault of the owner for not maintaining their vehicle. Metal will corrode, especially in salty or wet climates. Trusting that an electrical ground will survive for 40-60 years exposed to such conditions with no maintenance is rather illogical, don't you think?

We're talking British cars.
In 45 years of working on cars, do you know how many times I have had to deal with bad grounds on other than British cars?

"When is the last time you used your windscreen wipers?"
Last week, in a winter storm at 7,000-feet. Don't assume that because I live in California that I never leave my warm, sunny driveway!

Just checking.

"Most folks I know in LA don't drive their "classics" in any kind of dark or inclement weather."
I agree, but I'm not one of them. I drive M.G.s daily to work (through several counties) and for travel. I've driven all over the states in them. I've even driven on the salt flats. Do you know how much salt gets packed into every nook, cranny and system of the car when you do that? In the near future I will be driving a 1949 M.G. 10,000 miles around the entire continent. And you still think you're harder on your Jaguar than I am on my cars? :wink:

Absolutely.
And my Flatmotors.

Haven't done the hundred-mile-dirt-and-gravel-road trips with the Jag YET, but I have taken the flatheads places 4X4's fear to tread.

"The chances you have had to depend (as in USE them to get home at 0200) headlamps, panel lamps, windscreen washer, heater motor or defroster motor (and associated switches) are little and none."
Excuse me? Why would you assume that I don't drive my car at night? Rather narrow-minded, I think! Yes, I drive my M.G.s at night EVERY night, sometimes far from home in the middle of nowhere and sometimes in the city. And many, many times in torrential downpours with water above the door sills.

A) Because you live in LA, and B) because you live in LA.
Thanks for the update.

"I know when I took my 1950 Ford out from California to South Carolina in 1972 while in the Navy, I discovered the need for a new vacuum wiper motor the first week. Never needed it before."
Of course, since you apparently never used the wipers in California! LOL!

First, didn't really have to.
But, I did learn the flying trick, to drive PAST the windscreen.......now, with British cars, I don't have to worry.....

"So, in damper climes, when older, there are issues. Not insurmountable, but issues nonetheless."
I agree. Wet climates are harder on old cars.

"(ever looked at the field coils on an older Lucas starter motor?)"
Yes, when I replaced the brushed in my TC a while back. Despite the mileage on the car, they were original 60-year-old parts. They had worn completely through and were still functioning. I love Lucas!

Did you like the flat bar fields with cloth wrapping?
Ever had one fail?

I have yet to have one in my Flatheads lose a fieldpiece.

Only one I ever changed was in my Willys, put a 12V field piece in when I converted to 12V (shop truck, to jump-start British cars) to keep the cranking RPM down.

I was amazed.
Still trying to find a replacement.
Or, see if a flathead field piece will fit.

I love Lucas, too.
The local auto electric shop REALLY loves them.

Hard on my cars, eh?
Well, I have been checking.

If I remove the spats on the Jag, I have an old set of chains that will work, and I can drive it over the passes this winter.

I recall cresting the main pass about 15 years ago in my Flathead, chained up, 12" pack on the road, at 60MPH.

Tie 'em down right, you can do that.

But, gotta pull the spats on the Jag.

You got what model Morris Garage?

Chains?

Steve_S · Oct 19, 2008

"My Flathead Fords are over 60 years old, haven't lost any grounds. Original starter button, door lamp switches, headlamp switches....."
I don't recall losing a ground in one of my own cars in the past 20 years either. A well set up car is a wonderful thing!

You got what model Morris Garage?
I don't own any Morris Garages cars. The M.G.s that were built there are older than my cars. Mine are all Abingdon. :wink: I'd love to own a few of those early cars though! You can see the M.G.s that I own in my sig image below.

Did you like the flat bar fields with cloth wrapping?
I assume you're talking about the '49 starter I mentioned? I had a small amount of it missing from one of the coils in the starter I mentioned, but it was easily repaired during the rebuild. After 60 years, that starter was in a pretty sad state, bent shaft, brushes beyond worn, etc, but it still worked perfectly! Well, until I dumped gasoline all over it. That was fun! LOL!

"The lamp is to let you know the running lights are on.
Sorry. EVERY MK2 I have seen, they are on with park and head lamps."
Parking lamps ARE running lamps. That's why the bulb is there. When the parking/running lamps are on, the switch is illuminated. You can disable the lamp if you don't like it.

All my flatheads have max 3 [wires at the control box], which is 2 or 6 less possibilities of corrosion or failuer issues.
Fewer wires does not indicate a superior electrical system. It may however suggest a simpler one. Additionally, your Jaguar electrical system was not designed by Lucas so the statement is pointless!

...do you know how many times I have had to deal with bad grounds on other than British cars?
No.

"Why would you assume that I don't drive my car at night?"
"A) Because you live in LA, and B) because you live in LA. Thanks for the update."
I think understand much better now, thanks for clearing it up! LOL! We don't drive at night here, you know. Don't have to. It's always sunny, and we don't drive much either because we spend so much time surfing.

Roger · Oct 20, 2008

Living as I did in England for most of my life, I drove British cars with Lucas electrics for 30 years or so. Yes it rains, we had mud on country roads, frost, snow, ice and salt, etc., etc.
Lucas components worked fine - starters, dynamos/alternators, distributors, lights, etc. But the wiring loooms, installed by couldn't-give-a-darn followers of Red Robbo, with dodgy earth connections and the like, are another story entirely. Shoddy building at Longbridge, Cowley, Abingdon and elsewhere not only produced rust-buckets but led to the alomost-disappearance of the industry.

Steve_S · Oct 20, 2008

If only they had changed with the times, all these cars could still be rolling out of England.

TRDejaVu · Oct 20, 2008

I did a post a while back about why I won't buy any more GM cars after having them solely in 3 countries since about 1982. It was a story about how a complete rear window lift assembly failed and had to be replaced when the car was about 6 years old. The whole saga was because a plastic block cracked into small pieces and wasn't available as an LRU. So a complete assembly, motor and all, had to be replaced because a $2 part failed. OK, that was bad luck so I bit the bullet, paid megabucks and replaced the complete assembly. After that the car drove 6 feet when the other unit failed in exactly the same way. Drivers windows go up and down quite a bit, front passenger not as much, but rear ones hardly ever. I had owned the car since it was 6 moths old so I know how it was used. On aircraft we measure number of cycles between failure as well as MTBF. Those window lifts had hardly any cycles on them. I and my friends have other stories about other modern car brands, so this was not isolated.

On my TR4 I have had to replace one ground curl with an MTBF of 46 years, although my others are going strong. When the car came out of the barn and I put power to it, every single electrical item worked; I admit that I was surprised. The problem isn't typically that of Lord Lucas, it is poor maintenance practices by owners and/or their mechanics.

tony barnhill · Oct 20, 2008

TRDejaVu said:
The problem isn't typically that of Lord Lucas, it is poor maintenance practices by owners and/or their mechanics.

BINGO!!!

Steve_S · Oct 20, 2008

...say the folks from wet and humid places. Long live Lucas! :driving:

BenQ · Oct 28, 2008

Okay, thanks for that guys. Within the latest topic and this one, I have been able to develop a good understanding of what has been lost between the days of the LBC's and those of today, and hopefully (if successful), I will be able to re-capture some of this lost passion in my designs...

In terms of the cars I showed above, I agree that they are not as 'British' as they once had been, and I can see why the Lotus' are seen as the closest thing to the original British image, as they are the closest thing to an LBC. Small, very fast, sexy and unladen with technology... Sadly, with my previous University project being a Lotus, I have to look at the 'Luxury' area of the market. But, to capture the British look that I intend to produce will require a combination of the new-school luxuries of today, with the raw-ness and driver integration of the LBC's that made British cars so famous.

So, it's time for me to stop with the research and market studies, and pick up the markers again! ...

Thanks for the help, and the considered answers, it is appreciated...

Ben.

PS. I'll continue to check the forums so feel free to add any new comments, they will continue to be helpful

.

texas_bugeye · Oct 30, 2008

I'm thinking of developing an air freshener that smells of cold rich exhaust,worn saddle leather and wood It probley would be banned and demed an intoxicant. You would be arrested for driving under the influence of good taste.

JPSmit · Oct 30, 2008

texas_bugeye said:
I'm thinking of developing an air freshener that smells of cold rich exhaust,worn saddle leather and wood It probley would be banned and demed an intoxicant. You would be arrested for driving under the influence of good taste.

don't forget it would also have to drip oil - and periodically stop smelling completely for no reason at all

WHAT IS IT THAT MAKES BRITISH CARS SO SPECIAL?

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