What is a "Dealer 100M LeMans?"

[emgeetf]

I have a brochure put out by the Austin Motor company Longbridge, Birmingham along with Donald Healey motor company The cape, warwick which is publication number 113. This brochure titled Austin Healey Hundred ( model BN 1 ) SPECIAL EQUIPMENT AND TUNING INSTRUCTIONS, is 18 page brochure and has sections A to I covering modifications that the factory made available to Austin Healey 100 owners through the factory and dealers. Section A dealing with engine states " To enable the engine performance to be increased a kit has been produced. this kit was fitted to the Austin Healey cars that completed the Lemans 24 hour race in 1953." The engine modification kit is designated;

LE MANS ENGINE MODIFICATION KIT, PART NO P 280.

Power increased from 90 Bhp to 110 bhp with the fitting of this 25 piece engine kit and other modifications recomended by the factory brochure which included suspension, axle, brakes etc. Section I also gives list of available extra equipment through the factory which included the Le mans tune up kit ( P 280 ) Aero screens, 15 and 25 gallon fuel tanks with straps, Alfin brake drums, race type negative camber rear springs, race type Anti roll bar, close ratio over drive, race type silencer, front shock absorbers, crown wheel and peion and a special speedometer to go with the crown wheel and penion.


This clearly indicates that the factory did approve the use of a Le mans kit with the blessings of Donal Healey and made it available through the dealers and from the factory direct. Thus it is evident that some of these kits were installed by the delaers at the request of customers and of their own accord to prove the performance of these cars. the adage Drive to work on weekdays and go to the race track during the week end may have become true with these type of modifications done to the Healey 100. The truth is that most of these mods may not have been done before these cars were sold but after the cars were acquired by the first owners. Furthur all the modifications recomended by the factory may not have been done to each car and it is possible that partial mods were done. So a dealer modified car is one fitted with the Le mans kit supplied by the factory and although not any different from the kit being fitted at the factory it is not the same. The real difference is that the 640 or so cars done at the factory were recorded as factory produced and got recorded as such and have special value because of that and most of them carry numbers stamped on each panel to identify assembly of these panels on the correct cars, badges and other unique features which could not be duplicated by the dealers.

The current issue and discussion relates to value of the original cars produced at the factory and the value that should be placed on the cars that were fitted with the same modifications by the dealer or the owner who could buy this same kit and do it at home. How many of these kits were produced and sold is not known, so there may be a lot of these modified cars around and more will appear as time goes on. Instead of saying it is a car modified by a owner, now every car is identified as a dealer modified car which gives it a little more credence when it comes to re sale. The question is how much were these cars modified to come close to a Le Mans car ? . My Brochure has photos and information about what accessories were made available to modify these cars and they were very extensive and I am sure the mods were done by knowledgable people in stages. The question is if only partly modified are they still designated as having a le mans kit installed in the car ? One of the major things that was not offered in the kit was the louvered hood and most of the dealer modified cars did this on their own so they may not be all looking the same or have the same fin count unless they copied the factory installed hood. Also the dealer modified cars now are also stamping the steel panels with id numbers like they did on the 640 odd factory cars to give it a more authenticity. For all these reasons i think a factory le mans car is not the same as a dealer modified car and should be considered as such. At the inception it was performance and proving the breed and driving and enjoying a good sports car to work or the track. Now it is all about getting the best price for your over restored car. So this discussion will go on forever between the factory Lemans car owners and the dealer modified car owners.

Just thought I will let everyone know about this information.

 

[Genos2]

That is the same publication that I have, must have miscounted the pages. You are the first person other than myself that I know of having it. I always thought it was cool because of the fact I have an early 100 & have the handbook, parts manual & workshop repair along with other sales brochures. I agree that these were either dealer or owner installed options.

 

[CLEAH]

I Instead of saying it is a car modified by a owner, now every car is identified as a dealer modified car which gives it a little more credence when it comes to re sale.

emgeetf,

Your statement above is the issue. LeMans modification kits have always been available, and some were installed by dealers when the cars were new or thereabouts. No one disputes that. The issue with the auction house is they have invented a new designation, a Dealer Prepared 100M Lemans. Calling it dealer prepared is completely bogus in this instance because the kit was, as they admit, recently installed. There are true 100Ms, and then there are 100s with LeMans kits installed. Some were done a long time ago in period, and many more were done yesterday. A true Dealer Installed kit, if it could be proven, would undoubtedly be worth more than a kit installed yesterday. It is incorrect for them to broad brush and suggest that the moniker Dealer Prepared should apply to any 100 with a LeMans kit installed. They are making that up, apparently with the intent to make the car more significant than it is. Of course, by virtue of it being a beautiful 100, it already is significant.

 

[GregW]

I don't think any of the LeMans kits ever came with an "M" badge for the grill like this example has. That right there is fraud. I believe Rich would be furious that his name is in the description.

 

[Editor_Reid]

The "Le Mans" name was used.

Yes, it was. It was used for a set of aftermarket parts.

 

[Editor_Reid]

That is the same publication that I have... You are the first person other than myself that I know of having it.

I don't know of any 100 owner with a serious interest in their car who does not have a copy of that booklet, or at least a photocopy/scan. John Wheatley sent me one in about 1984 and I've had it ever since.

If anyone really interested in this subject would bother to read the article that explains what is (and isn't) a 100M, they'll learn something that a lot of people apparently have a very hard time grasping: the 100M has several special components above and beyond the components of the Le Mans Engine Modification Kit, and installing the Kit components - whether done by a dealer or an owner, and whether done way back when or last week - does not make a car into a 100M.

 

[RandyHicks]

One of the major things that was not offered in the kit was the louvered hood and most of the dealer modified cars did this on their own so they may not be all looking the same or have the same fin count unless they copied the factory installed hood. Also the dealer modified cars now are also stamping the steel panels with id numbers like they did on the 640 odd factory cars to give it a more authenticity.

Just to keep the record straight, the louvered bonnet was never part of the "LeMans Kit", but was available in period, from dealers and was part of the DHMC BN1/2 100's "with Le Mans Modifications". Also there were no specially numbered id panels on the 100M's. All BN1/2's had numbered bonnets, valances, prop rod brackets and cockpit trim pieces.

The real issue for me here is not the cars with period Le Mans Kits (about 500 kits) but the cars built recently with modern parts from Moss, etc. To me, they are conversions, clones, recreations (whatever) but do not carry the same value as period equipped cars. I applaud Reid's effort to collaborate with auction houses to get the facts correct.

Randy

 

[MarshgrassA]

As someone "hunting" a Healey I am happy to see this topic continue to be discussed. The car "still for sale" is beautiful and out of my reach no matter the linage but I am curious as to how any legal issues with originality or misrepresentation are determined in the Classic Car world.
I know of a Chevy SS several years back that a friend of mine purchased that was not represented correctly and when discovered the car was taken back by the seller.

Just Curious,
Irene

 

[Editor_Reid]

As someone "hunting" a Healey I am happy to see this topic continue to be discussed.

Discussion is one thing. Endlessly rehashing myths and misperceptions is just tiresome.

The car "still for sale" is beautiful and out of my reach no matter the linage but I am curious as to how any legal issues with originality or misrepresentation are determined in the Classic Car world. I know of a Chevy SS several years back that a friend of mine purchased that was not represented correctly and when discovered the car was taken back by the seller.

It's a tough one. "Caveat emptor" applies to the sales of these cars. It is the duty of the buyers to do the research, hire experts, etc. to satisfy themselves that they are buying what they think they're buying. In cases of outright error in the representation of a car, I know of a few cases where the auction company bought it back. Note that they did not go back to the seller/consignor; they bought it to sell again, only next time with a correct description. The high-integrity auction houses will do this under the right circumstances. Gooding & Company is such an auction house.

However, if you buy a Healey that you have convinced yourself is a "Dealer-Prepared 100M Le Mans" because of a cleverly written item description, and then you find out later that it is just a plain 100 that some guy threw a few Le Mans Kit parts and a louvered bonnet on last week (Teaching Point: the louvered bonnet was never part of the Le Mans Engine Modification Kit), then you have no one to blame but yourself and you will have likely paid a lot more for it than you should have with no recourse short of the expensive business of hiring an attorney, and it's very likely that the auction house has more attorneys than you, and their contracts certainly have enough fine print to make it a pointless exercise.

I highly, highly recommend contacting Randy Hicks (100 Registrar) and Bill Meade (100M Registrar) for any information they may have on a car you are considering purchasing. The auction house or other seller should be willing to give you the Car No. (VIN).

 

[bighealeysource]

I totally agree with Reid and have been a supporter of Bill Meade's 100M Registry for years now. With Randy Hicks now the 100 Registrar and an owner of two 100M's, got two great sources to do your "due diligence" if looking at one of these Healey's.

 

[Genos2]

Reid, I never said 100 M LeMans, only that name LeMans name was used in the brochure. Nor would I ever call my '53 100 anything other than what it is- A-H 100.even though she does have some of the optional equipment,she's beautiful, fun an unique. cheers

 

[emgeetf]

We need to take this argument in context as to what a dealer 100 M Lemans really is. Dealer means someone authorized by the factory to do the necessary work on the cars produced by that marque which included all authorized dealers in the USA and overseas. They were also authorized to carry the necessary parts for these cars inclding the Lemans modification kit as referred to in the factory publication put out by Austin Motor co. if you trace the history the Austin motor company started in 1905 and in 1952 BMC took over the production and servicing of these cars and continued to do so till 1967.( please correct me on this ) however the publication 1131 put out by Austin Motor co ? was printed with the production of the austin Healey 100 in 1954 and refers to the Bn 1 model specifically in the cover page. The point i am trying to make is according to history it may not be Austin Motor co dealers that were doing these mods or servicing these cars at the inception but BMC dealers till 1967 and later British Leyland till about 1986. can someone who knows the history let us know if the austin Healey cars were still being serviced by Austin motor co after the production of the BN 1 ?. How long the 500 or so Lemans kits lasted is any ones guess but Dealer modified cars should also have some reference to factory authorized dealers doing such mods and not any restoration shop that is slapping on these after market pieces even now and calling these cars dealer modified 100 m lemans. please correct me on the history of Austin Motor co and the later involvement of BMC and British Leyland in the servicing of these cars.

 

[Editor_Reid]

.
Dang, forgot to lock this thread...

So anyway, there is still no such thing as a "dealer 100M Le Mans" Healey. Le Mans is two words, by the way. It's a place name in France. They hold a race there. Maybe you've heard of it.

There was some unknown quantity of Healeys that had the Le Mans Engine Modification kit installed by dealers. That makes one of those cars "a Healey with the Le Mans Engine Modification Kit installed by a dealer" (i.e., it doesn't make them a special model or award them a special name). In contrast, the 100M - with the "M" suffix - was a special model, and 640 were made and sold, new (not retrofitted with anything) in 1955-56. It is only these 640 cars that should use the M as part of the model name. Someone throwing around "100M" when they're really talking about a car that was retrofitted with the Kit or part of the Kit is either ignorant to deliberately trying to confuse the issue.

BMC was the name of the combined/merged Austin Motor Company and Morris Motors. That merger happened in 1952. So an Austin dealer was part of BMC, not something separate. Trying to separate them is like saying that GM and Chevrolet are different companies, but in fact one is part of the other.

The figure 500 for the number of Le Mans Engine Modification Kits produced is highly, highly speculative and, in my opinion, easily discredited. I never use it. There are too many questions about it origins; it's a long story. However, for some reason some people seem to find comfort in embracing a specific figure. I'm comfortable with uncertainty, and if there were ever an uncertain number, 500 Kits is it.

If a Kit was installed by a dealer way back when, that's interesting. It only makes the car more valuable than a 100 that had the Kit components installed by Fred in his garage last week if you decide you'd like to pay more for it. They'd be the same in (a) having started life as standard cars and then (b) receiving some aftermarket modifications at some point. However, in collector cars people do pay more for provenance all the time. Be my guest.

If I recall correctly, 100M Registrar Bill Meade recently told me that he has only about two cars in his entire registry that have documentation of installation of the kit by a dealer. So all of these claims of a "dealer-installed Le Mans Kit" might be seen as nothing more than a fabricated attribute, designed to attempt to increase the price achieved at auction. In other words, it's BS meant to fool the ignorant. Demand to see the documentation of the dealer installation and see just how often they really have any. Until someone can show good documentation, it's just another standard car with some Le Mans mods thrown on by Fred last week, about which someone is making an unsubstantiated claim. You wanna pay a premium for that? Go ahead.

Goodnight, Gracie.