What have I messed up now?

[Tinster]

The TR6 and it's foibles continue to amaze me.
Replaced the rocker arm shaft and cleaned everything
spotless. Installed said rocker arm assembly.

Set valves at .010 , pre-set timing at 10* advance, new rotor:
car started on full choke with some difficulty. Next day, fine
tuned valves- car started with great difficulty and full choke.

Day 3- car will not start at all- no spark.
I replaced plugs, rotor, plug wires, dizzy cap and condenser can.
Car wouldn't start. No spark anywhere. Charge battery overnight.
Bumped dizzy out of timing- set dizzy by static timing method.

I replaced coil, again bought all new plug wires and new coil to dizzy wire,
again bought new spark plugs.(tested new coil- nice spark)
Let battery charge overnight.

Today.

Reset points to .012 gap, new plugs gapped at .030, valves regapped to .012,
dizzy still at static time.

Car would not start on full choke but sounded like it wanted to fire up.
Loosened dizzy and with remote starter button, slowly
rotated the dizzy while trying to start the engine. Zing!
The engine fires up into a smooth running beast. Quickly ran on no choke.
But the dizzy position sure looks odd to me.

A few hours to cold engine, turn the key on 1/2 choke-instant start,
smooth running. Performed a by the book timing test-
the engine is running beautifully at -0- advance. Cannot hook
up rpm cable or 2 small vacucum lines because of angle of dizzy.

Engine dies immediately if I try to rotate the dizzy counter clockwise.
Here a photo of my dizzy. NO I did not touch or lift
the dizzy body at any time.

All theories concerning my fine running engine at -0- advance
welcomed. Something is messed up but I've no idea what.

thanks as always- I need a detective.

Dale(Tinster)

 

[TR3driver]

My guess would be that you've put the plug wires on differently than they were before. ISTR a long-ago discussion that you rearranged the wires instead of correcting the engagement of the drive gear to the camshaft.

Anyway, that would be the quick solution now ... assuming you can remember that for next time!

 

[martx-5]

That's the only way this could happen. Looks like you have to shift all of the plugs wires one position clockwise in the distributor cap and turn the distributor back in the counter-clockwise position.

 

[Tinster]

My guess would be that you've put the plug wires on differently than they were before. ISTR a long-ago discussion that you rearranged the wires instead of correcting the engagement of the drive gear to the camshaft.

Anyway, that would be the quick solution now ... assuming you can remember that for next time!

Randall - I sent the dizzy off to Jeff at Advanced Distributors this
past Jan for a tune-up and he corrected for the backwards dog in my car.
My plug wire pattern and dizzy cap are same as everyone else now.

But thanks for the suggestion

dale

 

[Moseso]

Randall's right, Dale.
IF: the car runs fine, with the diz rotated as you show in the picture,
THEN: the wires are all one position CCW from where they should be.
Move each of the wires one hole CW and the rotate the diz 60* CCW and all should be right with the world -- you will have room to hook up your vacuum lines.

It has nothing to do with your drive dog, nor anything Jeff has-or-has-not done to correct it. Your plug wires are, simply, plugged into the wrong holes in the cap.

 

[Tinster]

Randall's right, Dale.
IF: the car runs fine, with the diz rotated as you show in the picture,
THEN: the wires are all one position CCW from where they should be.
Move each of the wires one hole CW and the rotate the diz 60* CCW and all should be right with the world -- you will have room to hook up your vacuum lines.

It has nothing to do with your drive dog, nor anything Jeff has-or-has-not done to correct it. Your plug wires are, simply, plugged into the wrong holes in the cap.

<span style="color: #990000">Ok then!

Here's a photo of my wire order on the dizzy cap with
the dizzy orientation set by static timing. The engine
did not even give a hint at starting.

Where did I make the error of plug wires out of order?
Thanks for helpin' this engine rookie!
dale</span>

<span style="color: #CC0000">I replaced all the plug wires and plugs with the dizzy set at
static timing. The car did not start until I had rotated the dizzy clockwise
as far as it would move. -0- degree advance.</span>
<span style="color: #990000">The 60* theory makes sense if someone can pick out my error in plug wire
placement on the dizzy cap. Thanks as always, dale</span>

 

[TR6oldtimer]

Dale, the wires in both pictures are in the correct order and in the correct position for a normally installed distributor, and it should have started. The fact that you had to rotate the distributor so much, tells me that the drive gear was not properly set to the cam at some time in the past. You have two options, yank the distributor and the drive gear, then move the drive gear one tooth counter CCW, or just move the wires one position CCW. The later may be the easiest for you to do.

 

[tdskip]

Hang in there Dale, I think many of us have done that.

The firing order you have there is correct, she goes 1-5-3-6-2-4.

Position of the distributor looks much better to.

Did she start OK in this position?

 

[DNK]

Did you remove the dist. When you did the rocker arm?
There was no reason to remove the plug wires from the cap when you did the work. Did you do that?

 

[Andrew Mace]

Today.

Reset points to .012 gap, new plugs gapped at .030, valves regapped to .012, dizzy still at static time....

Dale, although none of those settings is all that far off, I'm wondering where you came up with them, as they're not quite "normal"! Points usually are set to .015" (+/- .001"), plugs at .025" and valves at .010" cold.

 

[Moseso]

<span style="color: #CC0000">I replaced all the plug wires and plugs with the dizzy set at
static timing. The car did not start until I had rotated the dizzy clockwise
as far as it would move. -0- degree advance.</span>
<span style="color: #990000">The 60* theory makes sense if someone can pick out my error in plug wire
placement on the dizzy cap. Thanks as always, dale</span>

Dale --
The distributor cam has six lobes on it, each 60* apart. You can position the diz body to open the points at any one of them. By convention, we time the car on #1 cylinder, but that's not strictly necessary. However, the marks on your crankshaft pulley are set for that, so we use #1 cylinder. It WILL work equally well one full crankshaft revolution beyond that, when (sorry, I don't know the 6-cylinder firing order so I can't name the cylinder) is in the firing position.
If you timed the car at #1, and then assembled all your wires to the cap 60* (one position on the top of the cap) retarded, you would have to advance the diz body 60* to make it right. That is exactly what the picture you posted and the story you told looked like.

Why not try it? Put the diz in the position it's in, in your latest set of photos -- and then move the plug wires: 1 to where 4 is, 4 to 2, 2 to 6 etc. all the way around.

 

[Tinster]

Why not try it? Put the diz in the position it's in, in your latest set of photos -- and then move the plug wires: 1 to where 4 is, 4 to 2, 2 to 6 etc. all the way around.


Indeed, why not try it? And I did. With a little rotation of the dizzy the engine ignited and held RPM enough to set
timing at 10*. Engine purrs like before.

Gentlemen- as always I thank you one and all and also
Bill Kopf who walked me thru the valve adjustments.

thanks again!!

dale(Tinster)

 

[Moseso]

Well, I'm glad I gave the right advice. Diagnosing problems that are thousands of miles away is a tricky business. You take good pictures, Dale, and that helps. Still, I had to edit my posts a couple of times to make sure I was getting my CWs and CCWs in the right place. If I'm standing there, I can just do it -- and redo it if necessary. Telling someone as far away as you are what to do is much more nerve wracking.

Glad it's going again!

 

[Brosky]

Dale,

I'm sure you know this by now, but don't ever lose that digital camera. This is a lesson for anyone taking anything apart for the first or even tenth time. After it's apart, it's too late to look for a frame of reference.

Glad to hear that it's back to normal. Now go put some miles on it!

 

[Tinster]

Today.

Reset points to .012 gap, new plugs gapped at .030, valves regapped to .012, dizzy still at static time....

Dale, although none of those settings is all that far off, I'm wondering where you came up with them, as they're not quite "normal"! Points usually are set to .015" (+/- .001"), plugs at .025" and valves at .010" cold.

Andy:those setting were just to get the the engine
to fire and hold idle. Now, everything goes back standard specs.

Thanks,

dale

 

[DNK]

Dale,

I'm sure you know this by now, but don't ever lose that digital camera. This is a lesson for anyone taking anything apart for the first or even tenth time. After it's apart, it's too late to look for a frame of reference....!

Where was that advice 7 months ago?

 

[Brosky]

Don,

I just figured it out after taking apart a home project that was not car related and ended up with more pieces left over than I should have when it was all back together.

 

[Number_6]

Dale,

I'm sure you know this by now, but don't ever lose that digital camera. This is a lesson for anyone taking anything apart for the first or even tenth time. After it's apart, it's too late to look for a frame of reference.

Glad to hear that it's back to normal. Now go put some miles on it!

Paul is right, pictures are an absolute must when doing any kind of job on a car. When I took my Jag apart I had two thick photo albums with pics documenting every step of the disassembly plus a thick loose leaf note book crammed with drawings and annotated diagrams of everything, down to the exact length & location of each bolt that held the timing chain cover on.

 

[Tinster]

[image]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQSa4qZopNU[image]

 

[Brosky]

Oh-Oh!!

Forget the digital camera, now we've got Francis Ford Coppola on the island.

Nice oil spray on the rockers too.

I'm happy for you.