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Well ain't this just peaches and cream.

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Most likely true. But if there were rust deposits on the bore, when you cranked it over the rings can act as a VERY efficient scraper and all that built-up junk scraped and compacted may now be craminating it.

The only real way to see what's happened is to open it up.
 
DrEntropy said:
The only real way to see what's happened is to open it up.
Click to expand...

You think it's worth taking the head off in the car, or just pull the engine and figure it out, out of the car?
 
My 2p is: Pullin' the head may be inconclusive, then you're engineering a way to get the lump out of th' chassis anyway. Pull it out, bench the engine and begin the forensics exam. Unless you can definitively point to the cause as something externally wrong, you'd be taking a chance if ya don't open it up and thoroughly inspect the whole thing.

Just me, as I hate that "Vroom, vrooom..........*CLANK!*" noise.
 
Thanks Dr E. That's where I was headed, so I'm glad to have the second opinion in agreement.

That'll be two cars out of three with their guts out! But the Spit is still pulling strong. My boy and I took her down to work today to pick up some parts for the f-car, and she purred like a kitten :smile:
 
I heard you say that when you pulled the valve cover, all the valves looked OK. I didn't hear you say that you had looked into the cylinders for broken valves. A valve could be broken in mid stem and all would appear normal from the valve cover side because the rocker arms would continue to hold the valve springs in place and look 'normal'. Try removing the rocker pedistals and rockers, then pull or twist each valve spring to see if a broken valves ragged stem may be hanging in the guide and making all look OK.

I assume that when you were looking at the bottom end, you tried to rotate the crank by putting rotating pressure on the front alone, and on the rear alone to detect any movement that would indicate a broken crank.

And you did remove the oil pump/dizzy drive gear from any interaction with the cam.

If you don't find anything behind the timing chain cover and have covered all of the above mentioned checks, then I'm stumped. To lock an engine up like this (locked while turning), something has to have broken or something has to have wedged its self between a moving part and an im-movable part.

The only other thing I can think of that would fit that description, and I'm scrambling here, would be if a broken tooth in the transmission has locked up the first motion shaft to the lay shaft. Putting it in nuetral would have no effect, and a locked first motion shaft would prevent the engine from turning. If, however, you push on the clutch pedal and break the connection between the driving cover and driven clutch disk, a locked transmission would no longer affect the engine's ability to turn.

Water on top of the head could be from a small crack in the top of the head. I had that happen to a race prep'd head I spent many hours porting and polishing. Repaired it by drilling the head just before the crack started, tapped the hole , inserted a 1/4x28 screw, cut it off flush, and drilled a second hole which slightly overlapped the installed screw. Repeat the tap, install, cut off process. The second screw installed as an overlap of the first prevents the first from unscrewing. Continued this process the length of the crack and one hole beyond, set the last screw with a punch dimple, and used this head, under racing conditions, for several years without any leakage or further cracking.

I really NEED to know what the final determination is, as are others, I'm sure. Keep us posted, and GOOD LUCK.
 
You're right, Jim, I didn't actually look into the cylinders to determine if a valve is broken farther down. I also haven't taken the timing cover off yet, as it seems to me the only easy way to do that is to remove the front apron and I haven't done that yet. I did remove the dizzy drive gear, didn't make any difference.

I'm pretty much resolved now to pull the engine and get to the bottom of this, whether it's one problem or two. I'll keep this thread updated while I do it!
 
Here's why I have trouble with you pulling the engine just yet:

You said it was cranking nicely then just froze up. It doesn't seem to me that the engine would have been turning over nicely, then suddenly freeze, just after you tried a new starter.

In addition, you said the engine wouldn't go back in reverse, meaning it's likely not a valve stem or pushrod issue, nor a lifter issue.

You'd have to have a badly damaged main bearing, rod bearing or cam bearing for the engine to just suddenly sieze, and I suppose that's possible, but I'd pull the head before the engine, and I'd be checking the flywheel, transmission, clutch and about everything else before tossing in the towel.

But those who know better might have experience with this. My experience is that I always look for something more serious than things really are.

Good luck. Fun cars either way.
 
KVH said:
Here's why I have trouble with you pulling the engine just yet
Click to expand...

Well, here are my reasons on pulling the engine now-

First, I have to take the front apron and radiator off the car anyway to do a good inspection of the timing chain.

Second, how do I do a good inspection of the flywheel/clutch/etc without at least partially removing either the engine or the transmission?

Third, I don't like the coolant on the head, especially if it's unrelated to the stuck engine, and I'd like to have everything easily accessible to diagnose the root causes.

Fourth, after recently going through the twenty hour process of removing the engine from my 308, pulling the TR3 engine looks like a quick and easy job. I'm guessing five hours or so.

Fifth, it'll allow me to clean some stuff up in the engine compartment, repaint the block, etc.
 
A friend of mine had a similar problem with a freshly rebuilt Spitfire engine. It turned out to be jammed by a broken thrust washer.

Rick
 
Got the sump and valve covers back on, coolant drained, clutch hydraulics drained and hose and ground strap removed, and bonnet off the car tonight. Tomorrow I'll get the front off the car and radiator removed, and hopefully have a chance to get the carbs, manifolds, and generator off the engine. Then I just need to get the seats out, the tranny tunnel cover off, and the mounts/driveshaft bolts removed and I'll be in good shape to pull the engine and tranny.

I do still have to go retrieve my cherry picker from the field it's been sitting in under a tarp, and hope the hydraulic cylinder is still ok.
 
Removed the 308 unit yourself? That's a rare Ferrutzi owner!! Congrats!

...The TR will be baby-poop simple by comparison. :wink:
 
DrEntropy said:
Removed the 308 unit yourself? That's a rare Ferrutzi owner!! Congrats!
Click to expand...

Well, in complete honesty... no. A friend of mine, who is a pro, really "did the pull". I was just along for the ride. I would have scraped the heck out of everything, and probably broken the rear window!
 
Getting there...

trnofront.jpg
 
Just my 2 cents ...

Didn't you say the previous time you tried to start the car, the battery wasn't strong enough to turn it over?

So ... maybe the starter gear is locked into the ring - and that's why you can't turn it over by hand?

OK - back to my cave.
Tom
 
NutmegCT said:
Didn't you say the previous time you tried to start the car, the battery wasn't strong enough to turn it over?

So ... maybe the starter gear is locked into the ring - and that's why you can't turn it over by hand?
Click to expand...
No the battery is fine and load tested perfectly, it was the old starter that had trouble turning over. The new starter turned over just fine, until it all locked. The starter gear isn't locked into the ring because the starter is currently sitting on my workbench.
 
I agree with PeterK.

HSTRL Soggy Bottom has conducted experiments in this area and have found that a pant leg or equivalent will indeed catch the wing beading and bend it.

Racer's Tape works well.
 
(jdubois scribbles 'Tape pretty stuff down' to the top of his clipboard list.)
 
Made good progress tonight. I'm done in the engine compartment and the engine is ready to come out, except that I discovered I have no fuel shutoff valve, so I guess I've got to drain the tank before I disconnect the fuel line from the pump. Tomorrow night I'll do that and get the tunnel cover off and the gearbox disconnected.

I checked my cherry picker a few days ago, and it needs a new coat of paint but it's working fine. I'll get that home this weekend (I've got it stored away from the house), along with my engine stand. Then I'll enlist a few extra hands and plan to get the engine out a week from Saturday.
 
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