Waterless Coolant

[RAC68]

Hi All,

A session on Jay Leno’s Garage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7PykrgzWPQ) recently described the benefits of Evans Waterless Coolant (https://www.evanscooling.com/products/high-performance-coolant/). No corrosion, boiling point at 375 F high enough to eliminate overheating or need for a recovery system, and lasts for the life of the engine. Although a little expensive per gallon, it never needs replacing.

Has anyone any experience with this product?

Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[Keoke]

NO Experience Ray"

However, i estimate the cost to be about $$300.00 to switch. System flush + coolent cost.Sounds good though-

 

[John Turney]

I understand the heat transfer ability is lower than that of water. While it boils at a higher temperature, it would mean the engine would run at a higher temperature. The thermal conductivity of water (0.58 W/mK) is about twice that of this stuff (0.27 W/mK). It's about the same as pure anti-freeze (0.25 W/mK).

There was a thread on this a year or two ago. I recall the Alfa guys found it made the engines run too hot.

 

[RAC68]

Thanks Keoke/John,

I don't remember the past thread but will look it up. The interview with one of the owners of Evans Waterless on Jay Leno's Garage gave me the impression that this was recently introduced and didn't indicate its thermal conductivity was an issue that must be considered and would have the potential to have the engine running hotter. Most of us are running anywhere from 180F and 210F and are stressed to keep cool enough not to overheat. I wonder what the optimum operating temperature would be for the 4 and 6 cylinder engines and if it is beneficial or detrimental to have the engine running hotter without the concern for overheating when using a coolant that has a boiling point of 375F.

Thanks again,
Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[Keoke]

I wonder what the optimum operating temperature would be for the 4 and 6 cylinder engines and if it is beneficial or detrimental to have the engine running hotter without the concern for overheating when using a coolant that has a boiling point of 375F.

That is a hard one to answer Ray. But a good question.

However, the first thing that pops up in my mind is the running on problem if engine temp climbs above the normal characteristic values.??.

 

[Hoghead]

I understand the heat transfer ability is lower than that of water. While it boils at a higher temperature, it would mean the engine would run at a higher temperature. The thermal conductivity of water (0.58 W/mK) is about twice that of this stuff (0.27 W/mK). It's about the same as pure anti-freeze (0.25 W/mK).

There was a thread on this a year or two ago. I recall the Alfa guys found it made the engines run too hot.

That indicates that water is a better coolant than 50% antifreeze/water mix.
Just when I filled up today with 50% + Royal Purple "liquid ice". In retrospect water + Royal Purple would have been the way to go as she lives in a heated garage for the winter, or drain and replace with antifreeze just in case the power is off or the breaker blows when I am away

 

[Editor_Reid]

I decided to try the stuff in my Bugeye after its recent head work. So far it is giving us fits. Operating temp is all over the place, but mostly WAY high. It seems to climb for no apparent reason (running along at a steady speed on the highway it will pause and then go up 30 degrees and it NEVER comes back down). We're going to try replacing the water pump next week, and if that doesn't cure the problem, I'm switching back to conventional water/antifreeze.

 

[Lin]

Reid,
keep us posted. I put it in my recently rebuilt Jaguar MK2 (3.8) cooling system. Ran the motor on a test rack for a while with no problems. But, I am months away from being able to drive the car and test things under load. I would love to hear about the results you achieve.
Lin


QUOTE=Editor_Reid;988059]I decided to try the stuff in my Bugeye after its recent head work. So far it is giving us fits. Operating temp is all over the place, but mostly WAY high. It seems to climb for no apparent reason (running along at a steady speed on the highway it will pause and then go up 30 degrees and it NEVER comes back down). We're going to try replacing the water pump next week, and if that doesn't cure the problem, I'm switching back to conventional water/antifreeze.[/QUOTE]

 

[RAC68]

Reid/Llin, what were your reasons motivating you to waterless coolant over conventional antifreeze?

Ray(64BJ8P1)

 

[HealeyRick]

Reid,
You may have some air in the system. Jack up the front wheels, take the radiator cap off and let the motor run to operating temp so the thermostat opens up and look for bubbles in the coolant. Good luck.

 

[John Turney]

I decided to try the stuff in my Bugeye after its recent head work. So far it is giving us fits. Operating temp is all over the place, but mostly WAY high. It seems to climb for no apparent reason (running along at a steady speed on the highway it will pause and then go up 30 degrees and it NEVER comes back down). We're going to try replacing the water pump next week, and if that doesn't cure the problem, I'm switching back to conventional water/antifreeze.

I was having these kinds of issues with a TR4A I had on active duty. Turned out to be air in the system because the radiator cap wasn't the high point of the system, so air was always trapped. Filling the radiator with an extension on the filler using an old beer can solved it.

 

[Lin]

The idea of no (little) pressure and no corrosion appealed to me.
Lin

 

[Keoke]

The idea on no (little) pressure and no corrosion appealed to me.
Lin

Yeah Lin you will be good until it is time to drive the Jag, then switch to conventional coolants.

 

[Editor_Reid]

Reid/Llin, what were your reasons motivating you to waterless coolant over conventional antifreeze?

Ray(64BJ8P1)

I guess it's a case of "it seemed like a good idea at the time."

• The car will be stored a lot, used only a few times each year, so I guess the anticorrosion feature of the waterless coolant appealed.
• Plus the fact that it will never boil also appealed.
• It ran hot for no apparent reason before the head work, so it's not like "everything was perfect so why did I change something?"
• Jay Leno said it was good stuff.
• I'm open-minded about trying new things (sometimes in some circumstances).
• I'm a sucker for additives for oil and fuel, so why not punish the cooling system too?

 

[Lin]

Keoke,
you may well be correct. I am certainly not defending my choice at this point. Like Reid, I was curious and thought it was worth a try. Time will tell. I will report failure as well as success.
Lin

 

[Boink]

If I may, could I update or re-start this thread?

After recent engine work on the Bugeye (and transmission conversion to a 5 speed), I thought I'd try waterless coolant. My main reason was that I believe I have a pretty rusty block (and after replacing some freeze plugs and a flush, I saw some nasty stuff). Couple that with the fact that the car sits a lot of the year, it seemed like a good idea.
Well, I'm immediately noticing the car dieseling when I shut it down.

From reports I've read (by engineering and chemistry-savvy types), the heat absorbing capacity of this glycol stuff is very much less than water... AND that one's coolant could be, say, 180F while the head could be substantially hotter, say, 210F. This is because it just can't carry all the heat away fast enough due to its transfer rate. Oh, and my water pump is new.

I haven't checked specific temperatures yet, but I'm suspicious I'm running too hot (and need to pull a plug to see). If so, I think it's the coolant.
Yesterday, in warmer weather, the radiator burped a few cups of the stuff out the overflow (though the gauge read 185F). Odd.

Any more follow-up from those that have used it?

 

[Editor_Reid]

Hi Mark,

I gave up on it. Went back to a conventional water/antifreeze mix.

Found a Sprite guru (in Louisville KY where my Sprite is garaged) who installed an aluminum radiator, had the manifold coated, got the right distributor (one with the correct advance curve), tuned it right and probably a couple more things I'm forgetting, and the car runs at thermostat temp. It's magic. Coolant needle goes up to thermostat temp, thermostat opens, watch the needle fall, thermostat closes, coolant needle goes up to the thermostat temp, thermostat opens, watch needle fall, etc., etc., etc - like clockwork.

In other words, it works like ALL of these olde British cars should, but for some reason is exceptionally rare - this is a lifetime first for me. "It can happen. It IS possible."

 

[Joe Schlosser]

The big thing here is the difference in the heat capacity. Our British cars are marginal with respect to the size of the radiator as it is. To just maintain the same running temperature you would need a Radiator that is possible double the size of your present unit.
Allowing it to run at a significantly higher temperature has all sorts of effects on the engine internal parts. Running Sprite engines on a dyno shows that the optimum HP was at somewhere around 190-195 F. The thought was that all the clearances were optimal at that temp.

 

[Boink]

Thanks Reid and Joe:

Part of my problem is that they put in "NPG" (specific brand - not sure I'm supposed to mention the manufacture here). Wondering if I should even change it out to their "High Performance" line. The NPG is mostly propylene glycol and the High Performance is mostly ethylene glycol - both, though, with lesser heat transferal abilities.

SO.... I got in touch with the INSERT MANUFACTURER NAME HERE playful technical people, and they agree that the incorrect product was put in the car, and that it should be replaced. The "NPG" glycol has a different viscosity, flow and heattransfer ability – used for tracks that won’t allow ethylene glycol but will allow propylene glycol due to flash-points). Here’s what manufacturer's tech support just wrote me: “you should have used the High Performance coolant not the NPG. The NPG is muchmore viscous (thicker) and does not flow well unless there is a wide tube aluminum radiator that can allow better flow. Now, the radiator can be drained and I would save the coolant. You can add the HP to the NPG and if you addenough the NPG will be thinned out.”

So, the bigger question would appear to be whether to even bother with "High Performance." I'm going to be given enough to swap out the "NPG" so maybe it's worth a shot before going back to a conventional mix.

Here's a question though: if I bail out of this stuff and return to a more conventional mix, and given that the "High Performance" product is essentially ethylene glycol with some additives, could I consider just adding in water to get to about 50:50?

 

[Healey Nut]

Waterless coolant = Snake oil . They have been around for years and people listen to the sales patter and get sucked in and buy it . Its all sales BS just like the snake oil additives.