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water leak

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glassman

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71 model MG Midget 1200 engine.

Had cylinder head reconditioned, new head gasket, torqued in proper order to specs, but after putting it all back together, water immediately enter two non-adjacent cylinders. Machine shop checked head for cracks, no visible damage to block. Do these gaskets require a sealer? Other cars I've rebuilt do not and the manual indicates that you don't use a sealer but I can't figure out where the coolnat could be leaking from if not from the head gasket. All suggestions are welcome.
 
"Machine shop checked head for cracks, no visible damage to block."

Crack might not be that visible. I would have someone else check head just to confirm. Block could be the problem and a crack to small to see. Is the water immediate or after the engine is warmed? It is alo possible the head gasket was bad. I have had many new items that were bad. Because it is new one has a tendency to not think that is where the problem is.

I wonder if you can fill the passages in tne block with water when the head is off and see if the cylinders slowly fill?

[ 04-29-2004: Message edited by: Bruce Bowker ]</p>
 
Didn't start the car. After we reassembled the head onto the engine, we replaced the coolant in the system. Water started coming out of the spark plug holes in the head as we had not yet put the plugs in.

I'm thinking a bad head gasket here as the machine shop used is pretty reputable. They did find one small crack in the head and repaired it but it was very small and was more of a casting flaw than a crack.

The suggestion of partially filling the cooling system is a good one to check the block.

I'm thinking I have a bad new head gasket but it just seems unlikely. Haver ordered two new ones. These are made of a copper material. Anyone know if a sealer is supposed to be used on these?
 
Hello Glassman,
no sealant is required, the only advice given is to smear some grease on copper sandwich gaskets.

Personally I would check the gasket very carefully, do the water ports line up with the gasket holes?, is it a 1098 gasket on a 1275 engine or vice versa? (You say a 1200 Midget)
Cracks that not visible to the eye would take some time to fill a cylinder, but you filled two, so I think a crack is unlikely.
Another thought came to mind, has the head been skimmed\head nut washers omitted\studs not fully screwed into the block somehow. All I'm wondering, (and I've never heard of it happen) is are the head nuts bottoming on the threads on the studs and not pulling the head down hard; rather a long shot.

Good luck,
Alec
thirsty.gif
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by glassman:
Didn't start the car. After we reassembled the head onto the engine, we replaced the coolant in the system. Water started coming out of the spark plug holes in the head as we had not yet put the plugs in. -----
Anyone know if a sealer is supposed to be used on these?<hr></blockquote>
I think you have a much worse leak than just a small crack or slight gasket problem. If it filled the cylinders while just sitting there, think what would happen if the system were pressurized.

Maybe something like a plug left out of the top deck, or a headgasket design that has the wrong holes connected, or something that prevents the head from fully seating down on the block such as a pulled up headbolt thread or part of an accessory casting . Cracks up inside the ports would be hard to see but would still let water in.

I use Permatex "Copper Spray-a-gasket" on head gaskets. Others use some other sealer, or nothing, as you noted. If all machining is perfect, sealer should not be needed. You have my sympathy, glad it isn't my engine.
D
 
It's a 1275, sorry. Block has coolant up to the level of the cylinder head, no leakage into the cylinders.

You've given me a good idea about the head bolts/studs. One of them was different from the others, perhaps the threads were not long enough and it bottomed out as you suggested. The holes in the head/gasket/block seem to match up perfectly so I don't think we have a mismatch there.

My money is on the gasket or the head bolts.

Thanks for all your help. I'll keep you posted.
 
Let us know the outcome. Had a new water pump for an "A" that the locating stud on the block was too long for the hole in the pump. Snug it down and it would still leak....finally figured it out, filed off the locating stud a bit and voila, no leak.
 
locate a felpro head gasket and ditch the copper. they are much more forgiving
 
locate a felpro head gasket and ditch the copper. they are much more forgiving
 
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