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water in the oil

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sp53

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Well I am in disbelief, I went up to the barn and started my 61 T3 that I totally restored and there was water in the oil. I put the car up there about 6 months ago, and put the cover on it to take break from it. It just happened because it is not totally mixed, but clearly there is small pudding under the valve cover and the dip stick is milkshakie. It only has 100 miles on the engine. I have been working this car on and off since about 1985 with a frame off restoration. I had the head rebuilt and did the rest myself. I never drove this car really, so I do not truly know the condition of the block. Like a history of bad head gaskets or something like that. I bought it basket case and there was some pitting between 2 and 3 on the head surface, but again I paid like 500.00 to have it tested and rebuilt. It is a compilation of stuff I have collected over the years. Where to start, I have not re- torqued the head yet, but is that really going to fix it? Tomorrow after it cools I will re-torque, but sh!!!!t
steve
 
If you saw a puddle of coolant on top of the head (under the rocker cover), then there is a very good chance that the core plug in the head was not replaced and has corroded from the inside. Since it is aluminum in contact with cast iron, it corrodes easily by galvanic action, particularly if the coolant is not changed every few years (whether you drive the car or not).

Fortunately, if that is the case, the cure is easy and can be done with the engine in the car. Drain the coolant, then pry out the remains of the plug. Build a little dam of grease or clay around the hole, run a pipe tap into the hole, then insert a hex socket pipe plug. I forget the size offhand, but 3/4" sounds right.

Depending on the tap, you may have to trim the end so it doesn't bottom in the hole.
 
Sorry to hear it Steve- under the cover, does it look like fresh coolant? If so, maybe that aluminum plug is the problem? You might have a corroded plug there which didn't get changed out on the head rebuild. I think that would be potentially fixable without pulling the head which would be a good thing.
 
dang it, Randall types faster than me!
 
Thanks for the optimism you guys. I usually start at the worst and stay with that. The plug is original; it has some old English looking writing, but the pudding is by every push rod. Am I looking at this wrong and if you guys are correct, I would only have water in the oil and no oil in the water; at least until the oil was able to get back through the plug. I thinking the process would be under a lot less pressure than a head gasket, and the water would push out by itself for a while.
 

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Any chance it is condensation???...
It is Washington state
 
Put a clean drain pan under the engine, loosen the drain plug until the water on the bottom works around the threads, until oil comes out. How much water do you have?

Do you have access to a pressure tester for the cooling system? If so, with valve cover off, pressurize it to the max allowed, and watch to see if coolant seeps out of the plug in the head.

Leave the pressure tester on for 20-30 minutes, observing how the gauge reacts.....then, pull all the plugs, stand clear of the plug holes, neutral, e-brake on, and crank it.

If you have a head/gasket/cylinder leak, water will spurt out the plug hole. Then look for water aound the plug holes, q-tip swabbing the threads will tell you.

Report back.

Washington State....where? I am a 30-.06 shot east of Seattle, I have a pressure tester.
 
TOC said:
Do you have access to a pressure tester for the cooling system?
Click to expand...

If you have an AutoZone near by, you should be able to borrow a pressure tester from them.
 
I pulled the plugs before I noticed this problem and they are sooty with carbon, running rich. I put some clean ones in and that is when I check the oil. I am down in University Place TOC west of Tacoma probably 50 miles from you. I will ask around and see if I can find a pressure test, but if not come on down, don’t mind the mess. I like your ideas they should isolate the problem. There was one interesting thing going on, I heard this noise a couple of times, like something venting off. I could not tell what it was; it sounded squeaky kinda. I thought it was the radiator cap and took it off, but I heard it again. Yes, if it is a head gasket for sure, that would not too much, but I am afraid it is cracked block or the sleeves not setting. However, the hundred miles I drove it, it ran so cool that I was afraid the new gauge was wrong. Moreover, I am thinking, if it is the plug how did the water get in all those different places so uniformly around the push rods . Another thing that was weird is when I first pulled the cover there was clean water on top of the cover and a large puddle right on the plug. At the time I figured it was condensated steam ? Perhaps DNK has a point, but is has been so dry
 
If the water got into the oil and got mixed, the depressions would have water fall out of suspension and show puddles. Happens all the time. Question:
Did you ever re-torque the head after you warmed it up after re-assembly? I know, lots of folks say it isn't necessary, but I always check. Often, stresses come out, things seat. My 40-year process is to fire it up, get to operating temperature, shut it off and re-torque warm. Some old Midgets, only way we could keep a head gasket in them.
If you have a beam-type torque wqrench, tell me what the torque reading is when the nuts start to move, and what the spec is. You may be surprised.
 
Ok TOC, should I loosen a turn and re torque or just follow the sequence in the book and re torque, 105ft. It also sounds to me that I should do this first before I pressurize the system. I will let you know what I get. That was my gut reaction last night was to re torque when it was warm because this engine has been rebuilt before.
 
Don't back them off first. I want to know where they move, as in, what torque it required to move them. If you don't have a beam-type tork wrench, look roughly at how many degrees the socket turns before tork spec is reached.
Yeah, probably first, hoping it's just loose.
This guy recommends less tork....and stud inspection...granted, TR4.....https://www.expeditionlandrover.info/2trSite/Net_headTorquing.html
 
Well I am loosing hope about this being an easy fix, but I am sure I will learn something. I re-torqued nothing moved, and I went to 105psi with kinda new clickie wrench. I started at 50 70 90 105 click click click. I am still draining the water out slow, but judging from the dip stick there should be about a quart of water. After the water settled down the oil looked normally clean, but it was a quart too full, and I could kinda see a little water on the bottom. The plug just looks so pristine that I find it hard to believe it is leaking. I am going to a pressure tester tomorrow and continue testing. I really would like to isolate the problem before I tear it down. The gasket probably does not have any witness markes on it. I would be able to check sleeve protrusion better. One thought I had was that I actually got the sleeves too high by using permatex on the figure eight gasket.
Steve
 

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Odd...I had posted a reply earlier today and it's gone. Anyway, plugs still out, neutral, roll engine slowly a full 360 whilst looking down the plug holes with a flashlight, see if anything is puddled in there. As far as "steam cleaning", yeah, if over 212F and boilng away, maybe. But then you'd have some other issues to address.
 
Well TOC I need to get better flash light, but I think we thinking the same thing that the compression is still good and the leak is small and slow. It leaked about a quart in a hundred miles, plus a few hours of tuning. The engine does not overheat, yet, and I have not started it since. I have been slow to do the pressure test. I want to get the heater out of the system because the system runs a 4psi cap and the heater is original. Do you think the thermostat should come out? Moreover it has an nice original radiator also that has been rodded out. This vehicle is very stock. When I do pressure test, I think I will start low perhaps use 10 psi and see what happens. I see were Randall’s coming from with removing the plug. It should most likely go anyway. I really hope that is the problem, but I am thinking crack somewhere. Maybe, a bad seal on the figure 8. My retired machinist buddy, who I can never find, suggested at the time to just paint them with silver paint and let them rust in place. However, I do think they came with something on them from the factory.
Steve
 

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A pressure test can be as simple as connecting a source of regulated air (even a bicycle pump & a pressure gauge will do) to the radiator overflow tube. Pump it up to 4 psi, then see if any water comes out.

I went a little fancier than that, made up a pipe tee to screw in place of the heater valve with a Schrader valve on one side and a 15 psi pressure gauge on the other. Since my car doesn't have a heater, I tested to 10 psi (which is also the radiator cap I use). If you have a heater, you'll need to block the return line as well.

That plug does look very clean, so I think it's wise to try to find the leak before replacing anything. But if it is the fig-8 gaskets, I would be very tempted to try some kind of "stop leak" before tearing the engine down. I've had good luck with "Aluma-Seal" brand, although there are probably better products for this kind of problem.
 
TR3driver said:
But if it is the fig-8 gaskets, I would be very tempted to try some kind of "stop leak" before tearing the engine down. I've had good luck with "Aluma-Seal" brand...
Click to expand...
I'll second that recommendation. I'll grant you, I've never had such a problem as being discussed here, but for other cooling system minor leaks Aluma-Seal has worked quite well for me.
 
I don't see anyway a figure of 8 leak can get green antifreeze up in the valve cover. Same with the head gasket. My money would be on the plug (most likely) or head crack (less likely unless you overheated it severely in the past). To get antifreeze in the cylinders AND valve cover would be two unrelated problems...unless an overheat happened.

It all goes in the pan, so that's to be expected.

John
 
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