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Vintage Crash

aeronca65t

Great Pumpkin
Offline
Seen on another forum: This weekends results of a big-bore vintage race at BRIC at Road America...no serious injuries. I'm sticking to small-bore vintage!
More info:
https://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24343

46317625.bf071705027.jpg
 
OMG, look at that poor 70 Stang, I'm gonna cry. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cryin.gif
 
Good no one was hurt.

And, that looks like a nice, six figure$ repair bill there. Expensive sport, racing is. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif
 
Amazing, I can hardly believe that. I run mustangs up at RA since 98 and this really makes me sad.
 
"look at that poor 70 Stang, I'm gonna cry"

Poor Stang!? Poor Corvettes, Cobra, and Jag. Poor Stang, never seen a 70 stang that didn't already belong in a junk yard, haha. That is a bad wreck, and nobody was hurt, other than their wallets and egos?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Poor Stang, never seen a 70 stang that didn't already belong in a junk yard, haha.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on man, don't be crackin on Mustangs, be nice...

Yes, the whole scene is a shame, hopefully no one was seriously hurt.
 
Yes... Ouch! What a crying shame... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cryin.gif

These pictures came across a vintage racing group I'm in, one of the members (VARAC member) posted this information about the crash:

"This is from the group 6 BRIC race of July 17, 2005. My understanding
is that the pace car didn't control the field properly. Jim said that
the pace car was going too fast and the lead group got separated from
the middle group on the pace lap. The starter didn't give the green,
but the middle group of cars, by now up to full race speed & trying to
catch the lead group, couldn't see that, Nor could they see the lead
group of cars, which by this time were off of the gas and slowing down.

17 cars received extremely major damage or were destroyed. Nobody
died."

I suspect that these photos are being viewed lots lately! I noticed on the website (Dick Carlson's personal site) that no external links are allowed, I suspect his website rules have been broken many times now...
 
I've been watching vintage racing for a while and never have seen anything that major. I've seen many rear-enders and spins -- a flip (when a Fiat Abarth broke an axle going into an off-camber downhill turn,) but never a true pile-up.

That's a lot of busted metal and fiberglass! Plus those unibody Camaros will never be the same...
 
I saw a Lotus Elan flip and go into a gravel pit at Laguna Seca. It was a total loss. Even the rollbar was crushed and they had to cut the car open to get the driver out.
 
Vintage races can be scary.... we just got back yesterday from the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix and while we enjoyed it tremendously you have to realise that some of the rules are different. For example, they had a wonderful group of pre-war racers... early BMW's, Alfa's MG's, Maserati's, home built specials etc. They sounded wonderful, they put on a heck of a show and it was fantastic to see such old machinery up close and being raced very hard... BUT, we went in the paddock at the end of the day and I was shocked to see that close to 100% of this group did not have roll cages fitted, or even any extra bracing; about 80% of them did not have a fire supression system installed and the majority of the drivers only had a lap belt fitted, not a full race harness. Shouldn't safety come first no matter what and how you race?

RG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif
 
RG-Prewar cars typically carry very little crash protection, mostly because it's extremely difficult to get rollbars, side impact bars, etc. into a prewar car. I have a feeling that the drivers certainly know the risks. (Although the lack of a fire suppression system, even a simple extinguisher, is a bit confusing). Also, many pre-war racers are flat out unwilling to install roll protection in their cars, and will flat out refuse to race if forced to. Similar feelings exist in England, where the bare minimum is often required for open cars-a simlple roll hoop.

As for the RA incident, it happened Sunday morning-I arrived at the track as they were finishing the cleanup procedures. Most of the wrecked cars were already hidden away by the time I got to wandering the paddock, but we did see the remains of a C2 Corvette. Just a chassis with the roll cage fitted. Frankly, it looked like I could hop in and drive off!!!

-Wm.
 
"Come on man, don't be crackin on Mustangs, be nice..."

Must fight urges, must be nice, must not tell truth about cheap crappy car.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Must fight urges, must be nice, must not tell truth about cheap crappy car.


[/ QUOTE ]

Cheap crappy car?!?! What the heck do you call a Spitfire?
 
"What the heck do you call a Spitfire?"

I call it ten times the car a Mustang is thats what I call it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I call it ten times the car a Mustang is thats what I call it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um....OK. Has someone been slipping Walt cat tranquilizers or something again? He's sounding crazy and I'm a bit worried about him. Don't worry man, helps on the way.
 
Scott, in all honesty I work on alot of 60s Mustangs, and they aren't very good cars. They have horrible suspensions, terrible brakes, that couldn't properly stop a little red wagon, possibly the worst automatic transmissions ever made, bodys that rust even in the dryest of climates, and generally low build quality. The only two things I really like about the old cars, is they have nice looking bodys, and in some cases they have good engines. I really do consider the Spitfire a much better all around car than a Mustang. Oh and alot of people will say in defense of the old Mustangs that people only point these flaws out when comparing them to new cars, but I've got to say that when comparing them to other cars from the 60s they still have the same flaws. I know alot of people are nostalgic about these cars but I just can't seem to get around their basic crappiness myself. Sorry, but its just my opinion.
 
Walt, I can understand thats your opinion. I've owned, and rebuilt nearly from the ground up, three vintage Mustangs myself and I couldn't disagree more. Overall, when looking at what was coming from Mopar and GM at the same time, I think the Mustangs weren't any different. Sure, the original Mustang was based on an economy car platform (the Ford Falcon) and as such it was a bit lacking in sophistication. However, when compared to it's competitors, a few of which I've also owned and worked on, I don't see anything which sets the Mustang apart as being cheaper or of worse quality. Specifically, when you're talking about brakes and suspension, sure, it's your typical 60's American car technology, so what do you expect. If you're then comparing that to the handling and braking of a Spitfire then of course the Mustang is going to come up short, but it's a completely different type of car, you're trying to compare apples to oranges here.

As far as quality goes, I'd say the opposite. I think the quality of the parts, especially when it comes to castings and overall quality of the machine work and manufacture of parts, the American car companies were far ahead of the Brits, especially Triumph. When I pulled the trans on my TR6 a few weeks back I couldn't believe what the casting for the bell housing looked like, all sorts of imperfections, voids, you name it. I've never seen that on any Ford tranny, ever. Also, not to continue beating on the Lucas dead horse, but electrical problems that have plagued british cars since year one are relatively unheard of, at least in my experience, in Mustangs and American iron of that era. I've also never had a cooling system problem with a Mustang like I see so many people with British cars having, and thats with running a 300hp V8. Maybe thats more a design issue than a quality one, but it effects the quality of the ownership experience at the least. I don't know what the condition of the cars you've worked on was, but my cars seemed to stop and handle just fine when put into the context of the time the car was built. Considering the size and weight of the car, and the power level of the drivetrains, they seemed to do OK. Sure my TR6 handles better than my Mustangs, and it brakes better also, but I suspect thats more a result of the lower size and weight of the car and has little to do with the technology or quality of the brakes themselves. Plus, with a little work a Mustang can be made to handle very well, and I'd go so far as to say that the unibody construction of a Mustang isn't any more prone to twisting than the flexible flier frames that Triumph built. I don't know what transmission you were working on to say that they were the worst ever built, IMO the C4 and C6 were excellent units. If you're talking about the FMX then yes, I'll give you a little there, that wasn't the best auto box that Ford ever built but it wasn't all that bad. Chrysler had far more problems with the torque flight. The best auto box of that era though was easily the GM TH350 and TH400, the TH350 in my small block Nova SS was near indestructible and with the B&M shift kit it could lay rubber between all three gears shifting by itself. The FMX in my Mach 1 could do that but I never felt good about asking it to.

We could go back and forth on this for a year and not get anywhere. Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
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