General TR Valvoline VR Racing motor oils $3 / quart

[TomChar]

If you drive it at all in winter temps, I wouldn't have any straight weight in there, it could be too thick at startup. Otherwise, blending oil is fine, you just have to remember what the numbers mean. The second number (without the "W") is the normal operating temperature rating (all grades measured with the oil at 210F), while the "W" is the Winter or cold temperature rating, and tested at different cold temps. So if the second number is the same, than the oil is the same once warmed up. For summer driving, when normal folks drive their cars, using a straight grade oil is perfectly acceptable, just give it a little warm up time. If you're like me and go out in 20F weather, you'll need a multi-grade to protect those bearings when first started. The winter ratings are measured at various temps, all below freezing. 20W is measured at -10C (14F), while 10W is at -20C (4F). Yeah, don't ask me how that works.

 

[TomChar]

There was actually a court decision many years ago now, to the effect that almost any oil from a modern refinery can be called "synthetic". The term is effectively meaningless, kind of like "fresh frozen fish".

Yup, I believe the big difference is in the use of Group IV versus Group III base stock oils. If I understand it correctly, the Group IV's are the original "true" synthetics, whereby the oil is produced from ethylene stocks (which is produced from oil). Ethylene is a gas, and it's polymerized back into an oil form chemically, hence the origin of the name "synthetic". These were originally developed during WWII by both us and the Germans.

Group III's are just highly refined and are technically equivalent to the lubricating abilities of Group IV's, but cheaper. Hence the lawsuit. The big deal between the two goes back to additive packages needed for multi-grade oils. Group IV's can be "built" to perform as needed essentially without any additives, and since the lifespan of the additive is the limiting factor these days, Group IV synthetics will last longer. Combustion products leaking past rings and valve seals are what poison the oils now. I don't think any of the VR1's are Group IV, even the current Mobil 1 is a group III. Mobil does have a Group IV Mobil 1 product out, but it has a special name. I think the largest source of Group IV synthetics is AMSOIL right now.

 

[Got_All_4]

The only TR I drive on a regular basis in the winter and only on mild days it the TR7. I's fuel injected so it drives like a modern car with none of those carburetor problems in cold weather. So I use modern multi weight oils there. The biggest concern is with the TR250 because when I rebuilt the engine I installed a higher pressure or volume oil pump. Don't remember which one. (I was planning on doing a lot of autocrossing) It takes quite a while for the oil pressure to get to the normal range and it bugs me to see the oil pressure gauge pegged at start up for several minutes. I have to keep reminding myself of the pump. Anyway Running a straight 50 weight oil may not be good with all that pressure all the time, plus I might have a stroke. Now the TR3 no matter what weight I run nothing seems to matter with it. It's strictly a warm weather car. For what it's worth now I found and bought enough VR1 10w30 & 50 for a long long time. Thanks for the reply you seem very knowledgeable!

 

[fpstude]

Another negative for living on the Left Coast, California. Auto stores tell me it's against the law to sell VR1 here since last spring. Recently I've found some 5 quart jugs of VR1, but no single quarts. And you're buying this for $2 - 3 per quart! It's just not right (no pun intended).

 

[TR3driver]

Another negative for living on the Left Coast, California. Auto stores tell me it's against the law to sell VR1 here since last spring. Recently I've found some 5 quart jugs of VR1, but no single quarts. And you're buying this for $2 - 3 per quart! It's just not right (no pun intended).

As I understand the law, it should only affect VR1 in non-synthetic 10W30 grade. The new law requires that motor oil sold here meet any of the "current" API grades, which are SJ, SL, SM or SN. According to the Valvoline web site, all of the VR1 oils meet at least SL except the conventional 10W30.

Which is not to say the stores haven't decided to not carry any of it and claim the law requires that.

In case anyone else wants to look it up, the relevant bill is AB 808, which can be found at https://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/15-16/bill/asm/ab_0801-0850/ab_808_bill_20151008_chaptered.pdf

The relevant text is

13482. (a)
It is unlawful for any person to sell or distribute engine oil or lubricant unless both of the following are met:
(1)
The product conforms to a minimum of one active API classification
pursuant to the latest revision of SAE J183 “Engine Oil Performance and
Engine Service Classification”,
a minimum of one active sequence of the
European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA) “European Oil Sequences specification” or a minimum of one active OEM specification..

And for those who would like to make their displeasure known to the bills author, you can contact him through his web site at
https://asmdc.org/members/a54/

 

[TomChar]

Yeah, CA is beautiful everywhere, but... I notice that law doesn't mention using or importing the oil you need. Gotta start planning those annual road trips to the good ole USA!

 

[fpstude]

Randall, good information. Thanks for sharing. I"m sure it won't do any to review this with the chain store personnel, they just stock what comes out of the delivery truck. Although, I have not seen $3 oil here for years, when my wife would watch the ads for Pensoil 10-40 on sale.

 

[glemon]

The biggest concern is with the TR250 because when I rebuilt the engine I installed a higher pressure or volume oil pump. Don't remember which one. (I was planning on doing a lot of autocrossing) It takes quite a while for the oil pressure to get to the normal range and it bugs me to see the oil pressure gauge pegged at start up for several minutes.

I drove British cars through subzero temparatures and midwest winters for many years when I was younger, often contemplated what the effects of too much oil pressure on cold start up would be (as well as too little on hot days) but I didn't really have any choice but to soldier on and hope for the best as these were my only cars and daily driver back then. Nothing ever blew up or broke.

 

[Got_All_4]

Ya I remember in 1976 getting towed around the parking lot in my Spitfire by a fellow employee in 10 degree weather until it started. Also putting a 75 watt light bulb under a blanket over top the engine over night to take the chill off the block so the engine could turn fast enough to start in the morning. The joys of living in a cold climate and the Alaskans probably laugh at us.

 

[TR3driver]

Ah yes, the joys of driving a TR in the winter. My "most memorable" was coming out from 2nd shift a bit late and discovering I was the only one on the premises (there was no 3rd shift), the door had locked behind me (no cell phones back then); and the battery was too low to crank the engine. Did you know it's possible to push-start a TR3 by yourself? Wound up doing that several times that winter, before I finally put a 60 amp Ford alternator on it!

 

[Bruce100]

The only TR I drive on a regular basis in the winter and only on mild days it the TR7. I's fuel injected so it drives like a modern car with none of those carburetor problems in cold weather. So I use modern multi weight oils there. The biggest concern is with the TR250 because when I rebuilt the engine I installed a higher pressure or volume oil pump. Don't remember which one. (I was planning on doing a lot of autocrossing) It takes quite a while for the oil pressure to get to the normal range and it bugs me to see the oil pressure gauge pegged at start up for several minutes. I have to keep reminding myself of the pump. Anyway Running a straight 50 weight oil may not be good with all that pressure all the time, plus I might have a stroke. Now the TR3 no matter what weight I run nothing seems to matter with it. It's strictly a warm weather car. For what it's worth now I found and bought enough VR1 10w30 & 50 for a long long time. Thanks for the reply you seem very knowledgeable!

Just curious...
1. Is pegging? Is your pressure relief valve working right? You shouldn't peg, the valve should limit upper pressure to something like 60
2. Takes a long time to hit normal? Is your thermostat working right or missing? The thermostat's purpose is to get the engine up to normal operating temp as quickly as possible. That said it can take 10-15 minutes to get the oil to NOT, longer than it takes to get the antifreeze up to NOT

 

[TR3driver]

Just curious...
1. Is pegging? Is your pressure relief valve working right? You shouldn't peg, the valve should limit upper pressure to something like 60

I can vouch that the relief valve in a TR3 can't flow enough under all conditions. "Back when", I ran straight 40 weight in the summer and if I didn't change it out when the weather turned cold (in a fresh engine), the gauge would peg on startup. My reminder that it was time to change the oil!

 

[Got_All_4]

No worries on the TR3. it's the 250 that concerns me. It does eventually come down to 60 psi but it takes a while. It is much better now then when the engine was really fresh. probably around 12k on it. It would stay up there awhile but now it starts to come down when the engine starts to warm up.. Wondering how the uprated oil pump affects it. But I'm going to check into both the oil relief valve and the thermostat. How do I test the relief valve?

 

[TR3driver]

You should be able to see the action of the relief valve, if your hot idle pressure gets down low enough for the valve to close. Once the valve closes, the oil pressure changes quickly and directly with engine rpm. Eg the pressure at 1200 rpm would be about half again as much as 800 rpm. Once the valve starts to open, the change in oil pressure is much smaller.

Having the pressure go high enough to peg the gauge may not cause an immediate failure, but still is not a Good Thing IMO. There is no advantage to having that much oil pressure; and it causes extra stress on the oil pump drive and so on. Wastes power and fuel. I don't have a TR250 owner's manual, but the TR6 manual calls for no heavier than 20W50 and allows 10W40.