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urethane paint ?
- Thread starter mtlman8
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Since you say it looks great, it's probably not too bad and can be sanded and buffed as Steve says. If not, you'll have to sand it smooth and re-coat and, of course, spray without the orange peel.
Urethane, in my amateur experience, flows out pretty well under good conditions but air pressure, ambient temperature, reducer and technique all have to be right.
I'd waste some paint on a test panel before re-coating, in the unlikely case you need to re-coat. If you feel good about the above variables and still get too much orange peel, try contacting the paint supplier or manufacturer. I've found some of them to be quite helpful.
Tom
Urethane, in my amateur experience, flows out pretty well under good conditions but air pressure, ambient temperature, reducer and technique all have to be right.
I'd waste some paint on a test panel before re-coating, in the unlikely case you need to re-coat. If you feel good about the above variables and still get too much orange peel, try contacting the paint supplier or manufacturer. I've found some of them to be quite helpful.
Tom
CJD
Yoda
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No, that's not typical to get orange peel with urethane. It sounds like the final coat was put on too dry. A good painter can leave the top coat as smooth as glass. That's the bad news. The good news is that it is fixable...but with a lot of work.
Hand sand the orange peel with 600 grit wet or dry using water until the orange peel is only barely noticable. Then switch to 1200 or smoother grit, still used wet until the marks from the 600 are gone. Use plenty of water at all times, as this ensures the grit is removed before it can scratch. Do not sand the edges of the body, as these will cut through the paint, requiring a re-spray.
At this point you should have a semi-gloss surface, with just a hint of the orange peel left. Now power buff with fine polish.
This takes some skill and practice, as it is VERY easy to screw it up and cut through the urethane into the color...requiring a re-spray. A power buffer takes practice if you have never used one, as it can ruin the paint in a couple seconds if you are not paying attention. If you don't have someone to to demo your first time, I'd recommend sending this whole operation to an experienced shop. It only takes a couple hours.
Good luck!
John
PS...if you had a shop spray the car...ask them to do it for free, as they should have known how to spray without getting orange peel.
Hand sand the orange peel with 600 grit wet or dry using water until the orange peel is only barely noticable. Then switch to 1200 or smoother grit, still used wet until the marks from the 600 are gone. Use plenty of water at all times, as this ensures the grit is removed before it can scratch. Do not sand the edges of the body, as these will cut through the paint, requiring a re-spray.
At this point you should have a semi-gloss surface, with just a hint of the orange peel left. Now power buff with fine polish.
This takes some skill and practice, as it is VERY easy to screw it up and cut through the urethane into the color...requiring a re-spray. A power buffer takes practice if you have never used one, as it can ruin the paint in a couple seconds if you are not paying attention. If you don't have someone to to demo your first time, I'd recommend sending this whole operation to an experienced shop. It only takes a couple hours.
Good luck!
John
PS...if you had a shop spray the car...ask them to do it for free, as they should have known how to spray without getting orange peel.
hondo402000
Darth Vader
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I would start with 1500 first, make sure you use a rubber sanding block,water and a little soap and you can use a spray bottle, you can get them at the paint store, if you start with 600 you will sand thru the color coat and you will be repainting.
1500, the 2000 and buffing out, the finer the grit the more sanding but less chance of going thru to primer
I would start on a small area and see how it comes out but it is possible
hondo
1500, the 2000 and buffing out, the finer the grit the more sanding but less chance of going thru to primer
I would start on a small area and see how it comes out but it is possible
hondo
Brinkerhoff
Jedi Knight
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I find it interesting , all the advice given so far could have absolutely nothing to do with what your finish looks like now and what you think it should look like. What grit to use to color sand with is a judgement call based on what your finish looks like after its cured and all of the solvents have flashed ( two days? maybe) Time wise , if you have a lot of orange peel you're better served to sand it all flat with 600 wet ( using at least ten full sheets of paper on the car) waiting a few days , then top coating with a thinner ratio and or a hotter solvent or higher gun pressure ( the main causes) Without knowing any of these variables NOBODY can give you any proper advice. You may not be able to "cut " the orange peel with any grit higher than 600 ! If you've sprayed a lot of paint film you won't live long enough to sand it flat with 1500 grit ! The higher grits don't cut so much as they follow the contours of the surface. Do yourself a favor , have a painter from a production body shop look at your car and give you advice, and take it. They are all too happy to help a novice as they have all been in your shoes . If I want a show finish on anything , I plan to spray it twice any how ! I'll sand the first finish down flat with 600 then spray a smoother finish on top thats easier to sand flat with 1200 or so. Unfortunately is so expensive for materials to do a great job, its become out of hand for the average guy to do. Kevin
hondo402000
Darth Vader
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it depends on how bad the orange peel is, I sanded the clear coat on my TR6 with 1500 and then used a DA sander with 3M 3000 grit and then buffed with the DA and foam pads and it looks like a mirror, so thats why I said to test a small area on the car going thru the whole process and see how it turns out, but it doesnt matter what grit paper you start with you will still have to step up thru the grits till you get to 2000 or even the 3m 3000 pad and then buff if you want all the sanding scratches out
Hondo
Hondo
hondo402000
Darth Vader
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read this article it will help you
https://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/paint_sanding_howto/index.html
https://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/paint_sanding_howto/index.html
PatGalvin
Jedi Warrior
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Check out the forums on Autobodystore.com
Almost as friendly as us Triumph guys on BCF! Lots of info on color sanding and lots of tools and supplies, if you have an unlimited budget. You can post photos and questions. You'll find even more advice on color sanding than this post (although I don't think you'll find anyone that recommends 600 grit sanding for this activity!).
I did some "test" body work this weekend to see if I could pull it off. Sprayed PPG DBU and Concept Clear and it came out nothing short of fantastic. I'll share some photos and details later this week as I think I may have rediscovered my mojo, after much searching.
Pat
Almost as friendly as us Triumph guys on BCF! Lots of info on color sanding and lots of tools and supplies, if you have an unlimited budget. You can post photos and questions. You'll find even more advice on color sanding than this post (although I don't think you'll find anyone that recommends 600 grit sanding for this activity!).
I did some "test" body work this weekend to see if I could pull it off. Sprayed PPG DBU and Concept Clear and it came out nothing short of fantastic. I'll share some photos and details later this week as I think I may have rediscovered my mojo, after much searching.
Pat
PatGalvin
Jedi Warrior
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So I picked up a severely damaged fender from an F250 Super Duty Truck (complete with flames) as a practice fender. Knocked out the substantial dents and straightened the metal as much as possible. Ground down and filled with plastic filler. Filled with glazing putty. Blocked and three coats high build primer. Blocked and one coat primer. Two coats "Pepper White" PPG DBC catalyzed urethane. Three coats PPG Concept Clear. I only repaired the top of the fender as the damage around the wheel arch was severe and beyond my capabilities/time.
Expensive experiment but I learned that:
I can repair small dents and do a fine job;
I can paint pretty darn well with a $150 Eastwood Devilbis Starting Line Spray Gun set;
Great quality paints make for a very nice job.
I am going to cut and buff this (for more practice).
Plan to paint my 59 TR3A Pepper White (same color as 2010 Mini Cooper) with a big fat strip running from front to back.
Took a lot of time, was fun, and proves that you can learn something from all the instructional videos and resto books! Might not seem like much to the more experienced guys but this was a big step for me.
Pat
Expensive experiment but I learned that:
I can repair small dents and do a fine job;
I can paint pretty darn well with a $150 Eastwood Devilbis Starting Line Spray Gun set;
Great quality paints make for a very nice job.
I am going to cut and buff this (for more practice).
Plan to paint my 59 TR3A Pepper White (same color as 2010 Mini Cooper) with a big fat strip running from front to back.
Took a lot of time, was fun, and proves that you can learn something from all the instructional videos and resto books! Might not seem like much to the more experienced guys but this was a big step for me.
Pat
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Re Orange Peel: urethane paint ?
What ever happened to Mtlman's Orange Peel. I was anxious to see the Pics!
Hondo, you say you sanded and buffed the clear coat. Wouldn't Mtlman have to sand and buff before the clear coat?
Also, is that the standard procedure you describe for auto paint finishing? I really know zip about this stuff. You work up though the very fine grits all the way to 3000 using a DA Sander?
What ever happened to Mtlman's Orange Peel. I was anxious to see the Pics!
Hondo, you say you sanded and buffed the clear coat. Wouldn't Mtlman have to sand and buff before the clear coat?
Also, is that the standard procedure you describe for auto paint finishing? I really know zip about this stuff. You work up though the very fine grits all the way to 3000 using a DA Sander?
At my shop the clear coats are nibbed off with 1000 grit by hand ,DA sanded with 1500 then polished.But only as needed to achieve the desired effect.
600 Is way harsh,and would remove too much material.If you have severe orange peel, it may be a better option to re -clear the offending panels on a need to basis.The worst thing is to sand through the clear coat...be careful.
MD(mad dog)
600 Is way harsh,and would remove too much material.If you have severe orange peel, it may be a better option to re -clear the offending panels on a need to basis.The worst thing is to sand through the clear coat...be careful.
MD(mad dog)
PC
Obi Wan
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Re: Re Orange Peel: urethane paint ?
In most current base/clear systems the base lays down flat, both in texture and lack of gloss. The clear top coat produces the gloss and peel.
Production shops can be extremely cost oriented and will try to use as few steps and materials as possible.
If the shop's crew is very skilled they can still deliver good results with fewer sanding steps. (Note that the overwhelming volume of bad finish work on the roads suggests that relatively few shops are that skilled.)
For outstanding results, high end shops and especially those doing show quality work will take the extra steps.
Two little know finish sanding facts:
Sanding with a short throw DA power sander is more gentle, more controllable and far more consistent, yielding far better results, than sanding by hand.
Sanding with a short throw DA power sander is much more controllable and consistent than buffing. So you can actually save time by adding a sanding step or two before buffing. (to the same final film thickness, gloss, surface quality, etc.)
pc.
Sand? Depends on the paint system. Buff? No. You only do that on the top coat.KVH said:
In most current base/clear systems the base lays down flat, both in texture and lack of gloss. The clear top coat produces the gloss and peel.
That is a standard procedure as recommended by coating systems and abrasives manufacturers. But there's a lot of leeway in the process.KVH said:
Production shops can be extremely cost oriented and will try to use as few steps and materials as possible.
If the shop's crew is very skilled they can still deliver good results with fewer sanding steps. (Note that the overwhelming volume of bad finish work on the roads suggests that relatively few shops are that skilled.)
For outstanding results, high end shops and especially those doing show quality work will take the extra steps.
Two little know finish sanding facts:
Sanding with a short throw DA power sander is more gentle, more controllable and far more consistent, yielding far better results, than sanding by hand.
Sanding with a short throw DA power sander is much more controllable and consistent than buffing. So you can actually save time by adding a sanding step or two before buffing. (to the same final film thickness, gloss, surface quality, etc.)
pc.
hondo402000
Darth Vader
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yes I sanded the Clear coat but I used a base coat clear coat system, you Cannot sand the base coat once its sprayed, if you have to sand the base coat you have to respray the base coat, then within 12 hours you must spray the clear, once the clear dries for 12 hours you can wet sand with 1500. As far as a urethane, I would spray a test pannel let it dry, wet sand and polish it and see how it turns out. I have read you can put a clear coat over a urethane but dont know the procedure
Hondo
Hondo