Unacceptable Quality from the Big 3

[angelfj1]

Anyone who has followed my restoration project , "The Grey Lady", realizes that I have had my frustrations. Much of the pain was self inflicted and sometimes I have had to just walk away from "her" for weeks at a time. Seven years + and about 3 times the $$$ I had budgeted, but this winter I had a feeling that this Spring would find she and I on the road together. Well, our favorite big three (you know who I mean) are not making it easy. But their level of quality is getting consistent - pi** poor! It's hard to make progress when you have to return unacceptable parts. Case in point, a TR-3A fan. Now, please, this is a relatively low tech item, consisting of two pieces of steel webbing that are welded together and between which are sandwiched 4 aluminum fan blades. The fan blades are (supposed) to be secured to the webbing with 4 rivets each. Here is an early photo (7 years old) of my original fan.

Not pretty but the following photos show examples from 3 different "new" fans ordered from each of the 3 "big suppliers" at a price of $125 a pop. Look closely. Can you imagine what would happen if one of those blades let go at 4000 rpm??? Incidentally, I found the original fan today. After 49 years you can still see the quality in the way the rivets were seated and pressed and there is plenty of material around the hole. In addition ther are no gouges or scratches on the webbing. We could have restored this fan but decided to order a new one. :frown:

Out of 3 you might ask, "why didn't we receive at least one good one?" The answer is: One of the 3 big guys (we will call them BPC-1) contracted a guy from a large Asian country (who submitted the lowest bid) to bang these together in his "shop". Now BPC-2 and BPC-3 and anyone else with the $$$ and connections can buy this crap from BPC-1. So why shouldn't the parts all have the same fantastic quality. If you think I'm kinda cynical well your close. But here's the skinny, "no one cares". Including many of us. Otherwise these people wouldn't have the ba**s to sell such garbage. Don't get me wrong, when we complained the respective customer service people were very sympathetic. "Please return our crap. We would be pleased to send you another(piece of crap)". Or, "gee we don't know how that could possibly have escaped our quality control inspector" (who also sweeps up after hours). Or finally (and I saved the best for last), "this is very unusual. you know we are a BMHIT gold approved supplier".

So what was the solution? We took the best of the three fans, took it apart (which required breaking the welds), drilled out the rivets and reassembled with SS rivets, re-welded, and painted. Off tomorrow to the machine shop to get balanced (which takes some loading off of the front main bearing. The other 2 fans go back to the suppliers, who I am sure will return them to their respective parts bin.

This is just an example of what is becoming an all to common scenario. You can all do me (and yourselves) a favor. If you receive crap, please complain. Show your concern by not patronizing companies who do not value your business enough to provide goods or services that meet a reasonable level of quality. Our decision not to do business with these companies is our only weapon to demand better quality.

Thank you for listening to my rantings!
:blush:

 

[Brosky]

We can't live with them at times, but sadly, our cars cannot live without them. They are faced with trying to find suppliers just to make our old obsolete parts.

I'm not condoning this type of quality, just saying that they're not alone. Let's just hope that they don't stop trying to get parts or we're all in trouble. Save your original stuff and try to rebuild it.

This is why I'm doing my engine now, while I can still get decent new parts.

Sadly, this happens more cases than the Big 3. Bought any power tools lately?

 

[Andrew Mace]

...If you receive crap, please complain. Show your concern by not patronizing companies who do not value your business enough to provide goods or services that meet a reasonable level of quality. Our decision not to do business with these companies is our only weapon to demand better quality....

That's the bottom line right there. Do NOT let the situation slide if you do feel you've received a poor-quality item. I've had a (fortunately rare) occasion or two to do just this with at least two of the Big Three, and in return I have gotten satisfaction and, in each case, better quality parts than first received.

Obviously, the vendors aren't philanthropists; they're out to make a profit and keep their business going. And the good ones DO realize that they must "keep the customer satisfied" if they are to continue to keep their business going. The sad truth is that it is getting more difficult and expensive every day to contain costs and maintain quality, regardless of where reproduction parts are manufactured. And quite frankly, I believe there was a time, perhaps not terribly long ago, when some of the same potential customers who didn't mind dropping $450 a month for maintenance on their everyday cars would balk at the thought of paying "serious money" for parts for their LBCs. Sadly but perhaps understandably, there were also vendors who perceived this and "built down to a price" rather than "up to a standard" with some parts. Short-term gain, but long-term loss: word of mouth and repeat customers are what really keep these businesses going, IMO.

Quick story: several years ago, I did a rather comprehensive renovation of the brakes on a friend's MGA 1500. Some of the presumably (near-)original, 50-year-old wheel cylinders were beyond rescue. In redoing the system, we obtained some of the less-expensive aftermarket wheel cylinders. Ultimately, they functioned fine, but it took a good bit of filing and other "fettling" to get some of the cylinders to fit properly. I've never had to do that with genuine Girling/Lucas or Lockheed. I did let the vendor know about what I had to go through; nonetheless, it's the last time I'll willingly try to save money by obtaining a "pattern part" when OEM is still available. When OEM is NOT available, then ????

 

[Brosky]

Andrew & Frank,

I never meant not to complain or let them know about a problem. I have a list of returns for quality here as well. And I think that they do try, but definitely need to know when the experiment went wrong.

 

[Don Elliott]

Frank - Do what I did with my fan. In 1987, it looked like your old one. I had it sandblasted, then I masked the blades where they have to stay bare aluminium and I had the center part sprayed black. After 17 years of driving, it still looks as good as it did then. And no TRA or VTR judge can see down there to say it isn't like it should be. And I know my rivets are 50 years old - but they were done properly and they still are.

 

[PeterK]

What bugs me about this is that it's never free to return a part. It almost always costs something, not to mention the inconvenience. If a part is not defective, just crap, it costs at least two-way shipping to return it. One vendor won't accept a return on a part that sells for under $8.

Several times I received multiple items where one of the "identical" parts didn't match the other. From the same vendor each time. It got me thinking that the picker was getting a laugh picking two similar but different parts from the bin. So to get a matching pair, I'd have to reorder from them (NOT) or buy from a different vendor and take my chances.

Too many lowball bid repros too.

OTOH I was very pleasantly suprised with the quality of a pair of Made in Taiwan repro door latches that I received today from TRF. I've got junk from them before too, they're not immune. But these are nicely done. Also got a nice German made timing gear set from them too.

Still more and more junk falling through the cracks.

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

I hate to complain or make any kind of waves, but I do when I have to. I think part of the problem is that people don't expect quality replacement parts, and do not use their cars enough to find out what kind of quality replacements they have.

On the other hand, I'm glad to hear that you've spent more time and money than expected. -Not that I want to see anyone wasting time or money, but I've exceeded my expected expenditures and time allotment, and don't even have the car completly apart.

Thanks for sharing Frank, if you can't rant here, then where can you?

Cheers,
Jer

 

[brownsgolf]

This is a problem which I have, fortunately, not had to deal with much. I know that there are some companies out there which worry about quality and customer satisfaction. For example, on my father's car, a Ford Model A, the distributor who we purchase almost all of the items from list in the catolog which parts are made overseas and actually have spoken to the customers about their preference over quality or price. Quality wins out every time, so they buy as many parts as possible that are made in the USA.

I also work retail for a power tool manufacturer who will remain unnamed, but the quality of the items whch are made is so horrific that we at the store are able to fill at least a pallet a week of items which have been returned due to warranty reasons. The worst part is that the manufacturer has no problem with this and simply considers it a part of doing business. I choose to not purchase the items which I sell due to the number of returns which we receive.

 

[Tinkerman]

Have you solved your fan problem? If not I have one that would be quite useable and would be happy to send it to you for the cost of shipping.
PM me if you need it.

Tinkerman

 

[angelfj1]

Thanks so much for the offer. I think we have things sorted out.

 

[WA1KWA]

Another suggestion. If a supplier says they are a British Motor Heratige Trust Gold Approved supplier, perhaps a missive to ol' Blighty would be in order?

Colin

 

[Silverghost]

In a prior job,we supplied a big name company - non-automotive. They did major advertising on TV. Many items sold for 29.95, 39.95, etc. We were told BY THEM that they knew 50% of what went out the door was defective. They figured that at those price ranges it was too much hassle for the consumer to return the product. And they were right, they didn't get many returns. Of course in time that caught up with them and they are not in business any more.

To borrow a phrase from a movie "We're as mad as heck and we're not going to take it any more!" Don't accept substandard parts. Send it back, call, write, etc. If you don't say something, how will the company know there is a problem? And in the same arena, send a note, call, etc. when you receive excellent service. So many times, they only get the bad feedback.

Remember, OUR dollars drive THEIR business. Our money stops coming, they close.

 

[TR6oldtimer]

Just to chime in, I love it when a reproduction part comes with metric studs or bolts.

As to Asian made products, they can be as good or better the US or British manufactured items. The challenge is not on the manufacturer but on the wholesale buyer to set the standard and insure the standard is met. This is not easy because of the language, the distance, and various laws (or lack thereof) in Asian countries, as well as often working through a middleman. Another problem is on small lot purchases or special orders, it is money up front or no business.

This does not excuse the "Big Three" passing on junk as quality. In the case of the fan, they should have said "needs some work" in which case you would have probably still purchased it, or they should have repaired and marked up the unit, in which case you would more then likely still have bought it.

In any case, we buy this stuff because we need or want it.

That said, don't get me started on rocker panels....

 

[jessebogan]

Man o man, can I dentify with this.It does not much matter what kind of car it is either. On E types, there is a switch on the dash, and a surrounding plate that says Head Lamp on top, and Dip on the bottom. The repro part says headlamp(1 word not two) and the lettering font and spacing is wrong, and the letters originally followed the OD of the part. The new ones don't. I now hunt down good used parts. It is not a big thing, but it would have just as easy to tool it up right as it was to do it wrong. And it is a real visible part in a prominant spot on the dash.

Same with the brake master cylinder. The MC was used on all Etypes from the 4.2 series 1 to the series 3 V12s. The only differences are the fittings screwed into the top of the cylinder.So, I ordered one at great expense, and went to change over the fittings. The new part was metric threads. The vendor was just astonished, they had been told it would fit....I dont care where the parts are made, they should still follow the gosh darned specifications that were used in the first place.I would pay another ten bucks per unit so that they could invest in BSP tooling!!!!!I have a TVR in here now that I am doing the metric/BSP two step on. What a bloody waste of my time. In this case, I know the vendor, and he is a decent guy, and is passing on what he can get. The cars were made with BSP fittings, and the parts supplied should fit. If not, the firm making the parts are in the wrong. Too bad nobody checked before the parts were purchased for resale in the first place.

 

[angelfj1]

Colin: Iv'e posted this on the Triumph Register forum and have directly asked just what you have suggested. If I get any feedback I'll let all of you know.

fja

 

[angelfj1]

The challenge is not on the manufacturer but on the wholesale buyer to set the standard and insure the standard is met. This is not easy because of the language, the distance, and various laws (or lack thereof) in Asian countries, as well as often working through a middleman.

In principle, I agree, but in most instances (I have been told) the starting point is to supply a sample to the prospective manufacturer. He is supposed to use that sample as the basis for the reproduction. So, in the case of a fan (<span style="font-weight: bold">dear God, how simple can you get</span>) the fact that the holes are oversize, the webbing is scratched and gouged, the rivets are not set, and the blades are loose can not be attributed to language, the distance, or various laws (or lack thereof) in Asian countries. In my case the issue was sub par workmanship, no QC on the part of the middle man, no checking by the shipping dept, etc.

But, I admit is other instances these variables could contribute to unacceptable quality.

 

[BOXoROCKS]

...have you ordered the aftermarket M*ss brake hoses yet for the front brakes for a TR3.....dont, they rub on the ball joint,....unbelieveable.....or the dzus bonnet fasteners for the TR3 bonnet,from...the TR source... dont the are 1/8 to freaking short...I HATE CHIPPED PAINT.... Good used original parts should be worth their weight in gold.

...TR6oldtimer,..rockers???you outta see the MGA ones......and the dog legs....

I guess we should be glad we can get parts at all.

 

[angelfj1]

Thanks for heads up

 

[Brosky]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Good used original parts should be worth their weight in gold.[/QUOTE]

Rocks,

Have you looked at some of the used parts on ebay lately? That's the way that it's starting to go.

 

[PeterK]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Good used original parts should be worth their weight in gold.

Rocks,

Have you looked at some of the used parts on ebay lately? That's the way that it's starting to go. [/QUOTE]

Used parts are high partially because so much of the repro stuff is junk. The originals are always better if able to be restored. And like land, they are making any more (original parts). But even some rusted out junk sells high on ebay once in a while.