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DrEntropy

DrEntropy

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The end of the shuttle program came to us here as two muffled thuds. It came in over the east coast this last time so we didn't get the earth rocking effect of the deceleration.

I'm PO'd. This "end" will see the loss of many, many REAL jobs (3200 immediately). No forseeable replacement program, no good alternative to supply the space station with anything more than some Ritz crackers and humans.

We should have had a moon base long ago. Now we will watch as other nation-states take the lead. Horrible. Disappointing.

:wall: :madder:
 
"Now we will watch as other nation-states take the lead. Horrible. Disappointing."

Totally agree. PM sent.

Tom
 
"We should have had a moon base long ago. Now we will watch as other nation-states take the lead. Horrible. Disappointing."

I agree. Someone needs to rethink this program. My generation saw the launch of Sputnik and our scramble culminating (in my mind) to the lunar landing. Am I not correct in thanking our space program for the current technology most of us take for granted? Shame on someone.
 
Space program costs too much money that needs to be spent on other things.

But we've got plenty of war money.

KMA
 
Tick...tick...tick...
 
I hate to see the manned space program wane, but really, a significant part of our goals for exploration and collecting data may also be achieved with unmanned missions.

In these tough economic times, unmanned seems like a better idea, perhaps. At least for the short term.

I just hope the budget isn't completely gutted . . . :yesnod:
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] but really, a significant part of our goals for exploration and collecting data may also be achieved with unmanned missions. [/QUOTE]

To what end, Mark, other than to have humans follow? The moon is mineral rich, shipping it "back down" would be relatively inexpensive... as a nation we've LOST the initiative to benefit from that opportunity, even though we led the way. Unmanned is unspirited.

And a colt made a gelding is much more manageable but only good for running races... perpetuating the species is off the table.

"tick.... tick.... tick..."
 
Doc, I don't disagree with you because manned missions are key, but certainly gathering scientific data is equally important. Example: the Hubble telescope. Think of the discoveries garnered by it and other unmanned missions! In fact, it would be far more difficult to send humans into space without the info won by unmanned missions, which are <span style="text-decoration: underline">tremendously</span> less expensive.

Also, unmanned missions make it safer to send humans up later. The more science we have, the better (and safer).

You're right, there's nothing like sending humans up there, but considering our budgetary challenges today and the costs involved with human space exploration, unmanned missions are a great interim goal, given the current economic climate. More government spending . . . :nonono:

Also, I don't think we've "LOST" anything. All we have to show for the moon missions is knowledge: how do we lose knowledge?

And regarding profit from harvesting moon minerals, after spending the requisite <span style="text-decoration: underline">gobs</span> of cash to harvest moon minerals, I can't imagine how how we'd earn any profit by shipping it 250,000 miles through space. At any rate, it's infinitely cheaper to mine the stuff here.

My main cocern is the money. Budgeting and spending space exploration money wisey is of paramount importance. Everyone will have to suffer a bit, including space exploration funding.

In such a climate, unmanned missions are the way to go, IMHO.
 
vagt6 said:
Doc, I don't disagree with you because manned missions are key, but certainly gathering scientific data is equally important. Example: the Hubble telescope. Think of the discoveries garnered by it and other unmanned missions!
Click to expand...
One thing to note about Hubble. It was a failure until a manned mission went to fix the optics.

vagt6 said:
And regarding profit from harvesting moon minerals, after spending the requisite <span style="text-decoration: underline">gobs</span> of cash to harvest moon minerals, I can't imagine how how we'd earn any profit by shipping it 250,000 miles through space. At any rate, it's infinitely cheaper to mine the stuff here.
Click to expand...
The moon has stuff we don't have in abundance here. Helium3 comes to mind. Some scientists believe H3 is key to making fusion reactors work reliably.
 
GregW said:
vagt6 said:
Doc, I don't disagree with you because manned missions are key, but certainly gathering scientific data is equally important. Example: the Hubble telescope. Think of the discoveries garnered by it and other unmanned missions!
Click to expand...
One thing to note about Hubble. It was a failure until a manned mission went to fix the optics.
Click to expand...
^^^^this. IIRC it was ~multiple~ manned missions (in addition to the one that put it in orbit) to make it work right, and then there were the missions to ~upgrade~ the sensors...
 
They say the moon is made of cheese.....I like cheese.
 
And here I thought it Swiss all this time. Thanks fer clearin' that up fer me, Don. :smirk:

...speakin' of shipping, the route back is all <span style="font-style: italic">DOWNHILL</span>. A <span style="font-style: italic">catapult</span> would work to get to earth orbit, landing it intact and accessable would be the "expense" involved. It ~is~ rocket science and we have had a fair lock on it so far. That has changed on a dime. We're now "In the Age of Soyuz"!?! feh. THAT's "SPAM in a Can" retrogression. This will NOT end well, IMO.

Hopefully, the guys out west with their private efforts will absorb some of the Best and Brightest of the now unemployed of NASA. Unfettered talent is an amazing thing, it could turn this into a better situation.

We'll see.

Cheddar, anyone?
 
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
 
TANSTAAFL
 
Father Heinlein would be proud. :laugh:
 
vagt6 said:
Doc, I don't disagree with you because manned missions are key, but certainly gathering scientific data is equally important. Example: the Hubble telescope. Think of the discoveries garnered by it and other unmanned missions! In fact, it would be far more difficult to send humans into space without the info won by unmanned missions, which are <span style="text-decoration: underline">tremendously</span> less expensive.

Also, unmanned missions make it safer to send humans up later. The more science we have, the better (and safer).
Click to expand...

I think we have missed the point. Who dreams of piloting a command module in space from a desktop? Sending things to the moon or elsewhere is routine and mundane. Sending people, now that sparks our imagination and THAT'S what makes us great!
grin.gif
 
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