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MGB Turbocharge an MGB?
- Thread starter karter74
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Nunyas
Yoda
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I've seen a 'B GT on the net turbo charged, and I've seen a 'B on the net that had an engine from a Ford Escort Cosworth swapped into it. I've never seen a turbo 'kit' on the net so there would be a lot of custom work used in the process to get one installed. On the other hand, there are at least 2 Super charger kits available on the net that I've seen for 'Bs. In the land of forced induction for MGBs, installing a super charger would be far less work than installing a turbo charger, for relatively the same results (minus turbo lag naturally) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
To turbo charge an MGB would be relitivly easy. Get a header flange and weld up a nice turbo header with a turbo mount. Find a small or medioum sized turbo with a adjustable wastegate, then got a big carb, SU hiff44 or something and hook it up to a custom intake manifold you coudl make from the intake part on the rb mgb exhause/intake manifold and you done... easier said than done. But I'd rather see a turbo MGB than a supercharged one!
Scott_Hower
Luke Skywalker
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Turbos have lots of airflow and fuel variables to contend with. One doesn't just slap a turbo on an engine and expect optimal results - especially with a head as quirky as the B series (siamesed intake ports). At a minumum you'd want a 4-port crossflow head. Unless you readily understand turbos/airflow/fuelflow and compression ratios, you'll probably melt pistons and trash big-end bearings in short order.
Moss spent decent sums of money testing variations of their Supercharger kit. You'll be hard pressed to beat that.
Moss spent decent sums of money testing variations of their Supercharger kit. You'll be hard pressed to beat that.
alright, well with moderate power adders (45DCOE, complete exhaust system, cam, running on unleaded gas) what kind of power can I achieve that is usable in everyday use? Also, can you recommend a cam to me? I have been looking at the crane cams, but wanted to hear some opinions
danmas
Jedi Trainee
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Karter,
For the amount of time and money you'll be investing in a project such as this, you'd be far, far better off sticking a V8 in it instead. It'll be easier to do, cost less, give much more power, and be more fun to drive as well. See https://www.britishv8.org for more info, and come to the British V8 meet in Terre Haute this June 9 - 12 (details can be found on the refernced web site).
For the amount of time and money you'll be investing in a project such as this, you'd be far, far better off sticking a V8 in it instead. It'll be easier to do, cost less, give much more power, and be more fun to drive as well. See https://www.britishv8.org for more info, and come to the British V8 meet in Terre Haute this June 9 - 12 (details can be found on the refernced web site).
[ QUOTE ]
Turbos have lots of airflow and fuel variables to contend with. One doesn't just slap a turbo on an engine and expect optimal results - especially with a head as quirky as the B series (siamesed intake ports). At a minumum you'd want a 4-port crossflow head. Unless you readily understand turbos/airflow/fuelflow and compression ratios, you'll probably melt pistons and trash big-end bearings in short order.
Moss spent decent sums of money testing variations of their Supercharger kit. You'll be hard pressed to beat that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why don't we take the info that we know from the supercharger system and put it torward making a turbo system. There both forced induction and your engine really won't tell the difference between the two if set up right. Get a turbo and a wategate that can give you the same amount of boost that the moss supercharger will. Get the same carb from the supercharger system because both systems will be flowing the same amount of air and if the carb works on one, it will work on the other. Make up the needed manifolds and connect everything the way moss has you do it for the supercharger. Not only woudl that way probably be cheeper, but no one else would have one like it, and you could easily increase power with the turn of a knob with an adjustable wastegate(and some minor tuning). So what is the real difference between the two systems besides the way they look or cost? You will make about the same power, and your engine won't beable to tell the difference between the two.
Turbos have lots of airflow and fuel variables to contend with. One doesn't just slap a turbo on an engine and expect optimal results - especially with a head as quirky as the B series (siamesed intake ports). At a minumum you'd want a 4-port crossflow head. Unless you readily understand turbos/airflow/fuelflow and compression ratios, you'll probably melt pistons and trash big-end bearings in short order.
Moss spent decent sums of money testing variations of their Supercharger kit. You'll be hard pressed to beat that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why don't we take the info that we know from the supercharger system and put it torward making a turbo system. There both forced induction and your engine really won't tell the difference between the two if set up right. Get a turbo and a wategate that can give you the same amount of boost that the moss supercharger will. Get the same carb from the supercharger system because both systems will be flowing the same amount of air and if the carb works on one, it will work on the other. Make up the needed manifolds and connect everything the way moss has you do it for the supercharger. Not only woudl that way probably be cheeper, but no one else would have one like it, and you could easily increase power with the turn of a knob with an adjustable wastegate(and some minor tuning). So what is the real difference between the two systems besides the way they look or cost? You will make about the same power, and your engine won't beable to tell the difference between the two.
trboost
Jedi Trainee
Offline
The differances between turbo charging & supercharging is not just the total boost. The end result is also not similar. SC's generaly build usable torque at lower rpm's , It's usualy limited to under 10psi for street use & pump gas & generaly are easier to plumb. Current technology SC'ing utilizes a By-pass valve, essentially allowing you to drive a low compression, stock motor around all day until you step in to it. Boost only builds under "demand" requirments.
I think trying to build a trick motor using a turbo and 6 lbs of boost will yield very little gains & most of the changes will happen in the upper rpm band, great for a road course, lousy for the street. With out an engine management system in place the turbo would be harder to optimize. Don't get me wrong, both systems would benifit from EMC's but the supercharger is easier to tune & more linear.
I'm a big fan of engine swaps, and it does solve alot of the performance goals we're all looking for but it's not the answer for all of us. I have probably visited Dan's site more than he has, it's amazing. That is an example of doing it right. It does require much more fabrication to do it RIGHT. Many times alot more than most of us are capable of. It usually requires welding, sheet metal work & other drive train replacments. A well made SC kit can be bolted on in a weekend & your enjoying it immediatly. An engine swap is a longer term project . Certainly the end results will not be the same as a V8 , but if your looking for a car that will out perform anyone in your class & fool a few modern street ricers, forced induction may be for you. If you want to go to the next level & blow the doors off of a new Stang, a V8 is the way. Although I will say I have toasted a few V8's with my six /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I think trying to build a trick motor using a turbo and 6 lbs of boost will yield very little gains & most of the changes will happen in the upper rpm band, great for a road course, lousy for the street. With out an engine management system in place the turbo would be harder to optimize. Don't get me wrong, both systems would benifit from EMC's but the supercharger is easier to tune & more linear.
I'm a big fan of engine swaps, and it does solve alot of the performance goals we're all looking for but it's not the answer for all of us. I have probably visited Dan's site more than he has, it's amazing. That is an example of doing it right. It does require much more fabrication to do it RIGHT. Many times alot more than most of us are capable of. It usually requires welding, sheet metal work & other drive train replacments. A well made SC kit can be bolted on in a weekend & your enjoying it immediatly. An engine swap is a longer term project . Certainly the end results will not be the same as a V8 , but if your looking for a car that will out perform anyone in your class & fool a few modern street ricers, forced induction may be for you. If you want to go to the next level & blow the doors off of a new Stang, a V8 is the way. Although I will say I have toasted a few V8's with my six /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
lawguy
Jedi Knight
Offline
If we didn't like to tinker, we wouldn't be LBC enthusiasts. We'd all be driving Camrys- fine cars, but hardly interesting.
I saw an article in the Moss minimag, "British Motoring" about a guy who turbocharged his Midget. Yes, I know the difference between an A series and a B series, but lessons learned in that case would be applicable.
As I recall, he used a Rajay turbo. He melted a few sets of pistons along the way (genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration), but eventually sorted it out. He installed an MSD spark control that allowed for adjustment of timing to avoid detonation. He also insulated the turbo housing. A custom radiator was also built. I believe the carb was a single 1 3/4 inch SU, but a 2 inch would probably be needed for a B series (mybe more that that).
I say go for it. Are there risks? Sure, but it sounds like fun.
I saw an article in the Moss minimag, "British Motoring" about a guy who turbocharged his Midget. Yes, I know the difference between an A series and a B series, but lessons learned in that case would be applicable.
As I recall, he used a Rajay turbo. He melted a few sets of pistons along the way (genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration), but eventually sorted it out. He installed an MSD spark control that allowed for adjustment of timing to avoid detonation. He also insulated the turbo housing. A custom radiator was also built. I believe the carb was a single 1 3/4 inch SU, but a 2 inch would probably be needed for a B series (mybe more that that).
I say go for it. Are there risks? Sure, but it sounds like fun.
For what it's worth, I can offer the following hearsay from an apparently credible source. I met a guy at a big Albuquerque car show the weekend before last who did the s.charger installation as a part of his restoration. I saw his car. Said he got the kit from Moss, I think it was $2,500 or so (gulp). He said it was the best kit he has ever seen, everything was thought-out by the kit designer to the tiniest detail. He thought it was worth it, and he seemed very pleased with the results. Was quoting something like a 60% increase in effective horsepower. He seemed like a very knowledgeable and credible guy, and he had done a beautiful job restoriing his 78 B. You can decide what weight to give that evidence.
Regards,
Midgey from ABQ
Regards,
Midgey from ABQ
danmas
Jedi Trainee
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
A well made SC kit can be bolted on in a weekend & your enjoying it immediatly. An engine swap is a longer term project.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mitch,
I don't disagree with that at all. Moss has done a great service by producing the S/C kit, but if a turbocharger is what you want, you're pretty much on your own. As yet, there haven't been enough turbochargers built for an MGB to generate a comprehensive data base. Adding a S/C kit from Moss would be considerably easier than a V8 swap, but until a turbocharger kit is developed, a V8 swap would be easier.
There have been so many V8 swaps (and V6s) done and documented that just about every problem one might encounter has been solved, and the solutions are so readily available, that the swap has become doable by just about anyone. In most cases, the hardest part of doing something like this is figuring out *what* to do, and *how* to do it. Once that is done, the rest is usually fairly easy. In fact, if you own a late model - 77 or later - the BOP/Rover swap is so easy it's almost a "bolt-in" operation, and can be done in a long weekend.
OTOH, I have to agree with Lawguy. If the ONLY goal was more power, it would be much better to just buy a more powerful car, but that us not the case with us British car nuts. There's no rhyme nor reason for our wishes other than personal satisfaction, so if it's a turbocharger that floats yer boat, by all means go for it.
For some of us, it's the end result that counts, for others of us, it's the getting there that counts most. I think there would be a great deal more personal satisfaction from producing a quality turbo installation, breaking new ground, than swapping a V8 following the path blazed by others.
That's not to say that each engine swap isn't different than all the others, and there is still a lot of room for creativity in any individual swap.
A well made SC kit can be bolted on in a weekend & your enjoying it immediatly. An engine swap is a longer term project.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mitch,
I don't disagree with that at all. Moss has done a great service by producing the S/C kit, but if a turbocharger is what you want, you're pretty much on your own. As yet, there haven't been enough turbochargers built for an MGB to generate a comprehensive data base. Adding a S/C kit from Moss would be considerably easier than a V8 swap, but until a turbocharger kit is developed, a V8 swap would be easier.
There have been so many V8 swaps (and V6s) done and documented that just about every problem one might encounter has been solved, and the solutions are so readily available, that the swap has become doable by just about anyone. In most cases, the hardest part of doing something like this is figuring out *what* to do, and *how* to do it. Once that is done, the rest is usually fairly easy. In fact, if you own a late model - 77 or later - the BOP/Rover swap is so easy it's almost a "bolt-in" operation, and can be done in a long weekend.
OTOH, I have to agree with Lawguy. If the ONLY goal was more power, it would be much better to just buy a more powerful car, but that us not the case with us British car nuts. There's no rhyme nor reason for our wishes other than personal satisfaction, so if it's a turbocharger that floats yer boat, by all means go for it.
For some of us, it's the end result that counts, for others of us, it's the getting there that counts most. I think there would be a great deal more personal satisfaction from producing a quality turbo installation, breaking new ground, than swapping a V8 following the path blazed by others.
That's not to say that each engine swap isn't different than all the others, and there is still a lot of room for creativity in any individual swap.
Scott_Hower
Luke Skywalker
Offline
If you are determined to go the turbo route, I'd suggest reading Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. You can probably get it from Amazon.com. You'll also need some compressor flow map software to get an idea of the turbo characteristics - and to match them to the engine.
I wouldn't even think about a Weber DCOE carb; far too much induction (and too complicated) for what you're trying to accomplish. Stick with a single, simple HS6 or HIF44.
Expect to melt at least one or two sets of pistons until you get the tuning right.
I wouldn't even think about a Weber DCOE carb; far too much induction (and too complicated) for what you're trying to accomplish. Stick with a single, simple HS6 or HIF44.
Expect to melt at least one or two sets of pistons until you get the tuning right.