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Tubeless wire wheels,Please read this!!

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wheelwright

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If you have a set of "Tubeless" wire wheels,you may have a potential problem/danger waiting to pop up. Tubeless wire wheels have been around a while,and I have seen problems with them.Consider this:the spokes are sealed w/a rubber cement type product,to keep the air pressure in.Spokes stretch & settle during their life,especially when new.If a spoke were to move enough,a leak would occur,forcing the rubber sealer to rupture.A broken spoke COULD{and has been known to} cause a leak so fast that your tire would go flat FASTER than you could get off the road.An inner tube would give you a chance to pull to safety,and could be patched up and get you home. If you own tubeless wire wheels, you need this information,or if you are going to buy or have just bought a car,please check this out before you depend on these wheels for your safety,you can check by looking at the valve stems. If they are metal screw together type or rubber pull thru type,you should have tubes put in.. FYI..the correct tube for wire wheels will be marked w/2 wheel sizes,a 15" wheel uses a 14-15 tube,14" wheels use a 13-14,etc.This is because the wheel is smaller at the inside dimension,a tube too big will fold and pinch,ultimately causing a leak/failure.Don't scrimp on wheels,tires or brakes,and have a professional do the set up for you,your safety is worth it!!!
 
Tubes in tubeless tires? Isn't that a little on the dangerous side? As the tubless rims are not set up for the tubes and the beads of the tubeless tires restrict the seating of the tubes? Most wire wheels come with a band for covering the spokes to alleviate the wear against tubes. But regular cleaning and checking of wire wheels will help prevent leaks. Tubes will blow faster than a leaking wire wheel. Tube puncture is usually a catastrophic failure on the highway. Been there done that. Tubes are not tech pass at any track event.
 
I have always run tubes in the tyres on my Austin-Healey. I have never bought tyres that are not tubeless. Can you buy non-tubeless tyres? Perhaps in the USA?
I do not know how many miles I have covered but it is a lot and I have never had any trouble that might be related to tubes in tubeless tyres. This is the first I have heard of this being a potential problem. Scrutineers at competition events that I have entered have never questioned if my tyres have tubes or not.
 
I'm with you on tubes in the tubeless pan, have always run the same in my 4x4's, I think there may have been some concern years ago about running crossply tubes in the radials, however today they have tubes that are compatible with todays radial tyres, just make sure you have the band in so as to stop potential chafe on the spoke ends due to the greater flex in the radials
 
Thanks for your interest,I may need to clarify.The only difference in tubeless and non tubeless wire wheels is the rubber coating on the inside of the wheel.As I pointed out,this coating can rupture,and leak, if a spoke breaks,or if the spoke settles or stretches,which will happen as a normal consequence of use.If you think about the size of a spoke nipple,if one breaks,the hole is as big as a valve stem.How will you reinflate the tire? Will a new spoke keep air in? A tube can be patched,at least you can get home and have the wheel repaired.Also ,a broken spoke may not damage the tube at all,it will surely flatten a tire with no tube.As to the inner band over the spoke heads,there is not one over the outer spokes,just the inners.Neither Dunlop nor Dayton supply them,they are an optional item.In any case,the band will not help you on a tubeless wire wheel if the sealer cracks.I am only sharing this for the sake of safety,I true all types wire wheels daily,and I see the result of all types of wire wheel problems,from mis-mounted tires,duct tape over spokes,incorrectly balanced,glue from labels on the rim, wrong size tubes,bent rims,bent or broken spokes,and so on.Your safety is important,and the things I have presented are time tested and give you the safest possible wire wheel you can get. thanks again for your interest.
 
LarryK said:
Tubes in tubeless tires? Isn't that a little on the dangerous side? As the tubless rims are not set up for the tubes and the beads of the tubeless tires restrict the seating of the tubes?
Click to expand...
Are you thinking of tubeless tires on rims designed for tubed tires? I don't think the rim cares if there is a tube or not. The beads on tubed and tubeless tires are designed differently if I recall correctly.
 
Lets clear a few things up...

1. Running tubes in tubeless tires is not dangerous at all. You only need to make sure you are running tubes which are designed to be used in tubeless tires, which is any tube you will buy from an auto parts store. Tubes for Bias-ply tires are no longer manufactured for normal retail use but if you really want them, they are available from specialty suppliers.

2. Regarding a broken spoke causing a catastrophic deflation of the tire, the key word is "could". It's an unlikely situation which I predict is no more likely than an inner tube rupture which also "can" happen. Most tube ruptures occur from a lack of lubrication (such as talcum powder) between tire and tube, which overheats the tube and causes the splices to let go. This will eventually happen if you run a bias-ply tube in a radial tire.

3. A properly tensioned wire wheel should not suffer significant spoke stretch or movement, at least not to the point that it would tear apart the tubeless seal. This seal is very thick and flexible so it would take a lot for a spoke nipple to wear through. While I've never personally seen or heard of a broken spoke "shoot through" a tubeless liner, anything is possible.

4. If a tubeless seal does wear through from friction, the leak will usually be very slow. Suggesting the seal will "blow out" is not entirely accurate since the pressure within the tire is pushing the seal down against the rim. It is air pressure that helps the seal to work, not the other way around. The more pressure in the tire, the less air (proportionally) will leak through a small hole or tear.

5. I believe the rubber "pull-through" valve stems which wheelright is speaking of are those attached directly to an inner tube. Tubeless tires also use rubber valve stems but they mushroom out at the base rather than passing straight into the rim. This mushroomed area contains the lips which hole the stem in place.

6. There actually is a difference between rims designed for tubeless tires and hose designed for tubed tires. A tubeless rim will have a "safety lip" around the bead area. If there is no safety lip, you should not run tubeless. This lip will help prevent the tire from rolling off the rim should you suffer a blowout, especially under side-loading. This is the reason why you cannot order tubeless wire wheels from Dayton or anyone else in rim sizes under 5-5.5". The rims are not manufactured with a safety lip, therefore no sealed tubeless option.

7. Wheelright makes a valid note about using duct tape as a rim protector on wire wheels. Don't do it! Duct tape will not hold up to the heat and movement inside the tire. The glue will melt, the tape will slide and you will suffer chaffing, cuts and other damage to the tube. Besides that, it's an incredible mess to clean up the duct tape. You can use it in a pinch, but get it out of there ASAP. The best product I have found is Wonder Tape, which can be bought at many hardware stores or from British Wire Wheel.

8. A common belief is that tubeless wire wheels will leave you stranded if the seal breaks. This isn't entirely true. You can carry a patch material, but make sure it doesn't dry out before you need it. A better solution is to carry a spare inner tube in the trunk of your car. If the tubeless seal is damaged, simply have the tire shop install the inner tube. The sealer will act as a rim protector for the tube, and off you go! Even those who use inner tubes (myself included) in their wire wheels should always have a spare tube in the car. They aren't as easy to find these days and you don't want to be stuck anywhere for such a silly thing as not being able to find a replacement inner tube! :smile:
 
Steve - I agree with everything you said - except, the 'rubber bands' Moss sells to go around wire wheels do the job nicely, last for years, and are inexpensive.

I've also got a friend who took a set of MG wire wheels & coated the insides with some type silicone & put tubeless tires on them - never had a problem or leaks.

Wire wheels aren't rocket science....you clean the wheel, put a band around the spokes, put a tube inside the tire & drive the darned things.....its not like they're a bomb waiting to blow up, for gosh sake!

Unless you're trying to sell new wire wheels!
 
Rubber rim strips do work, but they are not ideal. They can break from age, and they move around as the tube flexes. If they move enough, the spoke nipples will puncture the tube. Therefore it's best to use tape, but you're right that the rubber will work.
 
My tires wear out of dry rot before the rim strips ever think of getting hard!
 
My rims are tube type wires. My tires are tubeless type. They were trued, balanced, tires shaved and mounted by Hendrix Wire Wheel of Greensboro, NC. https://www.hendrixwirewheel.com/services.html Hendrix Wire Wheel. Alan told me that when most people order tubes from after market stores, the tubes are usually one size to large for wire wheels because of the deeper center of the wire rims and are highly prone to pinching. Mine were the proper size for steel wheels but not wires. We replaced them with his tubes. May I add, they do excellent work!
 
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